Dreamweaver mx??

@wickedvitNov 22.2002

Just another question ..Im fairly new and have been sussing out different stuff for a website, my dad suggested he would buy me DREAMWEAVER MX so that I can do my site..after looking briefly thru google and finding some links to it..IT loooked complicated as hell….

just wanted to know if someone knows it they think that this program will be too complicated for someone new like myself..or is there enough info in there for a beginner to be able to get by to get onto the good stuff..

thank you wildvit

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Full-stack Developer

25 Comments(s) _↴

@VladdyNov 22.2002 — #<suit flame="retardant">

IMHO any WYSI(not)WYG editor is a waste of money. All you need to make a web page is a Notepad type editor that preferably has syntax highlighting.

</suit>?

@cxemaNov 22.2002 — #This a classic and I'll agree with Vladdy.

Not only WYSIWYG programs are a waste of money, but often WYSI[B]A[/B]YG. Using these programs you will find yourself stuck in the surface of HTML programming and will never fully understand it. Get a good HTML tutorial (plenty around) and you textpad and start!!. Use YAFIYGI tools you'll probably learn lots more.

@CharlesNov 22.2002 — #In the ammount of time it takes to learn Dreamweaver yuo can learn everything that you need to make a much better site without it. And keep in mind that sites made with Dreamweaver, and any other WYSIWYG, are specific to graphical browsers. Those pages are especially troublesome for persons using Braill or audio browsers. And keep in mind that in the United States the American With Disabilities Act applies to the internet.

And you need never spend a dime on software for web development. There are plenty of open spource programs out there.

@Robert_WellockNov 22.2002 — #Yes, I dislike WYSINWYG editors, though tools similar to Dreamweaver do come in handy for large site maintenance.

I wouldn't suggest buying Dreamwaever though. I'd use notepad but in reality if you have plenty of web projects on the go it's advisable to have a Development IDE so you can quickly update multiple pages, an example of a commercial IDE would be XML Spy.

Actually Dreaweaver is very easy to learn, but it has a very cluttered and cumbersome interface and is best left to people who never want to learn HTML and just want drag-and-drop and have lots of money to waste.

If you wanted a reasonable drag and drop tool you could try the: Westciv Layout Master. As Charles says there's a lot of good open-source tools out there its just find the one that suits you.

@ThaLyricNov 22.2002 — #VLADY -> IMHO any WYSI(not)WYG editor is a waste of money.

Well ... I think that's not completely true I think.

Yes , I use Dreamweaver. But before I've used Dreamweaver I've coded with notepad (and sometimes I still do ). So I still know the syntax en some tags Dreamweaver doesn't know.

But ...

When I design a HTML website , my boss would rather let me use Dreamweave because of the time. And in the webdesign world, time is ... money ... So why not make a table with only 2 clicks ( about 3 seconds ) instead typing the whole table.

I normally use Dreamweaver to quickly set up the basic HTML codes and then alter it when needed ...

So waste of money ? IMHO not all WYSIWYG are bad. But still you'll need to learn the basics ( with notepad ).

@CharlesNov 22.2002 — #So why not make a table with only 2 clicks ( about 3 seconds ) instead typing the whole table. [/quote]
[font=georgia]Because you aren't supposed to be using tables for layout[/font]
Tables should not be used purely as a means to layout document content as this may present problems when rendering to non-visual media. Additionally, when used with graphics, these tables may force users to scroll horizontally to view a table designed on a system with a larger display. To minimize these problems, authors should use style sheets to control layout rather than tables.[/quote]
[font=georgia]( http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#h-11.1 )

And styles are way much faster to impliment than tables.

And see http://www.stopdesign.com/wired/docs/ . [/font]

@Zach_ElfersNov 22.2002 — #First of all, dreamweaver is for JavaScript, not HTML. Second of all, I've never used it but I heard it's better than Adobe's GoLive, which does the same thing. The choice is yours.?

@wickedvitauthorNov 22.2002 — #thank you everyone ..much appreciated!!

Im slowly learning BUT what I would LOVE to quickly learn as well is all these fab abbreviations, I know thats not what they are called but ...

I have already sussed out WYSIWYG & HTML..(lol)

and thats it so I know there must be a great big book somewhere that will keep me up to date with everything..

any suggestions???

thank you wildvit

@CharlesNov 22.2002 — #[font=georgia]Everything that you need to know about web authoring can be found at the World Wide Web Consortium ( http://www.w3.org/ ). They are the people who are in charge of the internet so just start hunting around. I would suggest that you spend some time there every day but two good places to start are the HTML 4.01 Specifiation ( http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/ ) and the Cascading Stle Sheet site ( http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/ ). The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines ( http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/ ) are also extremely important. [/font]

@Rick_BullNov 22.2002 — #And any other acronyms you can't find try http://acronymfinder.com/ ?

@spufiNov 22.2002 — #"First of all, dreamweaver is for JavaScript, not HTML. Second of all, I've never used it"

Well your second statement shows your ignorance on the first statement. Deamweaver is for HTML.

I would only suggest a person who already has a firm knowledge of HTML to use Dreamweaver. I also wouldn't recommend someone using it unless they make websites for a living. I actually have Deamweaver and it sits and collects dust as I use a $30 text editor that works with various file types and what not. I've tried free text editors and so far I'll still pay the $30 for [URL=http://www.editplus.com/]Edit Plus.[/URL] If you are making a non-profit website, go to [URL=http://www.textpad.com/]Text Pad[/URL] and download their text editor. You get a evaluation copy that prompts you to either continue to evaluate the product, or buy it. I would just click on "continue to evaluate." If it's a for profit site than Text Pad cost $27 last time I checked, but personally, I like Edit Plus enough to drop the $3 extra bucks. Edit Plus has a 30-day evaluation period, so you can't abuse the evaluation period thing like you can with Text Pad. I have also worked with pros who use Text Pad to make sites and to code Java so it's a fairly solid product. I'm still sticking with Edit Plus though. :-) So yeah, don't use Notepad. (shivers)

@Zach_ElfersNov 23.2002 — #[i]Originally posted by spufi [/i]

[B]"First of all, dreamweaver is for JavaScript, not HTML. Second of all, I've never used it"

Well your second statement shows your ignorance on the first statement. Deamweaver is for HTML.

I would only suggest a person who already has a firm knowledge of HTML to use Dreamweaver. I also wouldn't recommend someone using it unless they make websites for a living. I actually have Deamweaver and it sits and collects dust as I use a $30 text editor that works with various file types and what not. I've tried free text editors and so far I'll still pay the $30 for [URL=http://www.editplus.com/]Edit Plus.[/URL] If you are making a non-profit website, go to [URL=http://www.textpad.com/]Text Pad[/URL] and download their text editor. You get a evaluation copy that prompts you to either continue to evaluate the product, or buy it. I would just click on "continue to evaluate." If it's a for profit site than Text Pad cost $27 last time I checked, but personally, I like Edit Plus enough to drop the $3 extra bucks. Edit Plus has a 30-day evaluation period, so you can't abuse the evaluation period thing like you can with Text Pad. I have also worked with pros who use Text Pad to make sites and to code Java so it's a fairly solid product. I'm still sticking with Edit Plus though. :-) So yeah, don't use Notepad. (shivers) [/B][/QUOTE]

Sorry about that. I read that it makes JavaScript's in a book. I was stupid enough to assume that was it. I guess it does both. Sorry.

@wickedvitauthorNov 23.2002 — #THANK YOU SO MUCH ..I will be checking these out asap...much appreciated good people??

wildvit???

@jpmoriartyNov 26.2002 — #A fantastic resource to check out if you're looking to learn HTML the old fashioned (and correct) way - ie using notepad - then get yourself over to [URL=http://www.htmlgoodies.com]HTML goodies[/URL] . It's got loads of tutorials on all the basics, explains how and why things work, and goes on to teach extended topics too if that's what you want (like java scripts and applets). Well worth a look.

Can I also ask a question? If I wanted a page with a series of images running down the left hand side, and text on the right of each of the images (ie text accompanying the image), how I would do this properly (ie using style sheets). And when you've explained that, explain further how it's easier and quicker than putting it into tables? As a mathematician I've learnt through my degree that some of the biggest breakthroughs come from people doing what they're not supposed to - it's how we realise that things can be applied in different ways. Gallileo announced that not everything revolved around the earth, we went around the sun: if you'd been around at the time you'd have said "that's not what's written in the rule book..." Using tables is fantastic for those of us who might not know everything about the web, but want to do [I]something[/I] towards making our sites look nice and well formatted - I'd rather someone used a table [I]wrongly[/I] as you would say than go to a site and see a mess of images and text with no discernable layout. Chill out man - the rules are there to be broken, and I hardly think that this business of "tables for layout" is a major one that's going to bring the internet to its knees. The beauty of the internet is that people of all abilities can get out there, have some fun and get on with being productive, without getting bogged down in the rule book of what's right or not.

@CharlesNov 26.2002 — #[font=georgia]I'm quite familiar with the HTML Goodies site. It's chock full of incorrect information. Avoid it at all costs. And everything that you need to know you can find at http://www.w3.org/. Gallileo announced that not everything revolved around the earth, we went around the sun[/quote] But it turns out that Gallielo's system is better at predicting where planets are going to be but if you want to know where stars are going to be then you are better off using Ptolemy's system. Until the US Navy stopped using the stars to navigate they were assuming that the earth revolved around the sun.

Likewise, using tables for layout or using CSS have different advantages and disadvantages. If you know how to use tables and don't know CSS then for you, at this very minute, tables are easier. But that doesn't tell you anything interesting. CSS is just as easy to learn as tables and a good bit easier to implement. And using tables for layout means that your page is inaccessible to persons with certain disabilities. And don't try to tell me that it's morally permissible to go around taking white canes from blind people. And don't try to tell me that people who build buildings that are inaccessible to wheel chairs are being bold and innovative. We have laws against those sorts of things for a reason just as we have laws against inaccessible web pages for a reason.

When I studied Mathematics at the Polytechnic we certainly didn't believe that the laws were meant to be broken. We were trying to find the laws. Likewise, you are welcome to suggest that 'do not use tables' for layout is a bad rule, but you do err in saying that we should eschew the rules. And you are a immoral and cruel person if you think that blind people ought not to be able to use the internet.[/font]

And to line up text alongside images, put each image and associated text in the same block level element.

@jpmoriartyNov 26.2002 — #Hey now hold on just one second - I dont want this to turn into a slanging match, but i think you've taken just about everything I've said and shifted it to the absolute extreme, so lets just clear up a few things.

But it turns out that Gallielo's system is better at predicting where planets are going to be but if you want to know where stars are going to be then you are better off using Ptolemy's system. Until the US Navy stopped using the stars to navigate they were assuming that the earth revolved around the sun. [/QUOTE]

Okay, but not my point at all. The point was that everyone told Gallileo that the sun went around the earth. he went away and proved that it didn't. Sure he wasnt exactly right, nor was Newton when he came up with gravity - it was revised by Einsteins general relativity etc. But the point was that he challenged a previous conception, neigh what was considered a previous [I]law[/I] , because he thought it was incorrect.

And don't try to tell me that it's morally permissible to go around taking white canes from blind people. And don't try to tell me that people who build buildings that are inaccessible to wheel chairs are being bold and innovative. We have laws against those sorts of things for a reason just as we have laws against inaccessible web pages for a reason. [/QUOTE]

Well I'm sorry but now I think you've lost the plot. I'm not even going to comment on the first two bits, and comment on the third by saying that it's not actually a law (even if it is called that) because it's not an offence to break it. And even if it were (so sue me if I'm incorrect), I made the point that a blind person would have no interest in my site because it is a photograph site. If there was a building which just had stairs in it, nothing else, then there would be little point in including wheel chair access to the building because the stairs make it inaccessible to the wheel chair user. by the nature of my site, it is inaccessible to blind people, and I apologise for that, but if you can tell me what teh "law" on making photographs available to blind people is then I will happily comply. Do I have to include a three hundered word description of every photo? What about the people who are disadvantaged by not having access to the internet? maybe I should send copies of the page (in braille of course also, and large print for the partially sighted, and an audio version) to everyone in the world so that noone is disadvantgaged. Then of course I'd have to translate it into every language possible, and include biographies of everyone who is included in the photos so that noone is disadvantaged by not knowing who is in the photograph. My point is that yes I agree that sites should try their best to accommodate everyone, but that's not always possible, and if every site on the internet had to adhere to all the riles before it was allowed to be published then the internet would have died many years ago.

When I studied Mathematics at the Polytechnic we certainly didn't believe that the laws were meant to be broken. We were trying to find the laws[/QUOTE]

Maths has developed so much in the past century becasue of people using previous techniques where they hadn't been used before. The links between vastly different areas of mathematics, thought hitherto completely unrelated, have come about by people saying "humm, wonder if this will work there..." The link between modular forms and elliptical equations for example thrust number theory forward enabling mathematicans to prove the Taniyama-Shimura conjecture and therefore also proving Fermats last theorem. I at no point said that laws were meant to be broken - I just said that occasionally using a law somewhere where its not been used before or in a way not considered before can lead to great steps forward.

but you do err in saying that we should eschew the rules[/QUOTE]

And I didnt say that, I said that people shouldnt be afraid to try stuff for fear of breaking the rules.

And you are a immoral and cruel person if you think that blind people ought not to be able to use the internet.[/QUOTE]

And at this point you slip into the realms of the ridiculous.

As for HTML goodies, it is a site that encourages people to make their own sites, to enable previously incapable people to publish the information they want to publish on the internet. In effect, it gives people the power of free speech, and what could be more fundamental than that. Yes it would be great if every page adhered to every law set out by the w3c, yes it would be great if everything was accessible to everyone in every part of the world, but things shouldnt be shunned for failing that. Otherwise the internet would be full of people ranting about how other peoples sites dont conform to article 3 seciton 4 of the w3c code blah blah blah.

Oh wait a second, it is...

@StefanNov 26.2002 — #[i]Originally posted by jpmoriarty [/i]

But the point was that he challenged a previous conception, neigh what was considered a previous [I]law[/I] , because he thought it was incorrect.
[/QUOTE]

That is why we have CSS, becuse the W3C thought <table> for layout (the previous dogma) was wrong. ?

Long live Gallileo and CSS ?

As for HTML goodies, it is a site that encourages people to make their own sites, to enable previously incapable people to publish the information they want to publish on the internet. [/QUOTE]

Yes, that is the good part about the site. Sadly all the errors in the codeexamples make the visitor learn a way that will break his "freedom of speach" in many browsers.

Learning to code to SPEC increases your "freedom of speach" since it will work in more browsers. It is also not harder to code correct code vs incorrect code (in fact it's usually easier since there is a much greater chanse that the page will look resonably the same in several browsers from the start if made with valid HTML).

In short, it's not just ranting, there is a real world benefit with sticking to SPEC. ?

@jpmoriartyNov 26.2002 — #this isnt a disguised rant, it's a legitimate question now! If you click on [URL=http://www.bedgeburyschool.co.uk/main.news.html]this link[/URL] you'll see a site I've made recently that uses tables for layout purposes. Particularly, note the actual news bit where I have, as mentioned before, pictures on the left and then text on the right of those images. The text all lines up nicely (isnt overlapping underneath the images when the text gets too long), and also the images also have a nice curled border around them to make them look pretty.

Can someone show me how to achieve this using CSS, and then tell me where I can go to get a good tutorial on how to use CSS's properly, cos so far I've only been able to use them to change fonts and border colours...

Many thanks and eagerly awaiting responses.

@Robert_WellockNov 26.2002 — #I would tell you where you could visit a good CSS layout resource, however I have a dislike for the overuse of web-logs. Perhaps someone else will...

I have a rather simple table-less site: http://www.xhtmlcoder.com/worthvalley/ which I coded from scratch without any tutorials. Unfortunately I haven't made very accessible since I employ JavaScript and haven't used the alternative fallbacks.

Maybe when I get a little further through my Cisco CCNA I'll address that issue.

There are various ways to achieve the table layout on your site using CSS, some better than others; since there are a plethora of user-agents out there and Micro$oft is notorious for screwing up the box model and that seems to be the most widely used browser.

@StefanNov 26.2002 — #Here is a real quick transformation of your newssection into CSS layout.

We simply make a box and specify that there should ALWAYS be a 120px space on the left side

.news {margin:0 0 0 120px;}

Then we take the image and move it out into this area "forbidden" from the rest of the content. We also float it left so that the rest of the text ignores it beeing there.

.news img {margin-left:-120px; float:left; }

What is missing is the "curly borders". Rounded corners is only available in the upcoming CSS3 spec so browsersupport is a bit spotty on that.

If you think it's really important to have you could always keep the table sorrounding the image and move that as a complete unit just as this example move the image into the "forbidden" area.

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en" lang="en">

<head>

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />

<meta http-equiv="Content-Script-Type" content="text/javascript" />

<meta http-equiv="Content-Style-Type" content="text/css" />

<title></title>

<style title="Default" media="screen" type="text/css">

body {border:1px solid blue; padding:10px;}

h2 {font-size:100%; margin:0;}

.date {font-style:italic; font-size:80%;}

.news {margin:0 0 0 120px;}

.news img {margin-left:-120px; float:left; padding:5px; border:1px solid blue;}

.news p {margin-top:0px;}

img {border:0; vertical-align:bottom;}

</style>

</head>

<body>

<div class="news">

<img src='http://www.bedgeburyschool.co.uk/entrance.jpg' alt="" width="100" height="100" />

<h2>English Department Presents Reading Certificates</h2>

<div class="date">Added 20 November 2002</div>

<p>

At the School Assembly on Friday 15 November, Lucy Roddie, Sophie Watkins,

Sophie Studd, Emily Jones and Ione Gearing were awarded Bronze

Reading certificates by the English department as part of the Key

Stage Three Reading Scheme. They are now eligible

to try for the Silver Award.

</p>

<p>

<a href='./school/english.reading.requirements.html'>Click here</a> to see what they

achieved, and what the requirements are for the next stage.

Well done girls!

</p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

@CharlesNov 26.2002 — #[font=georgia]jpmoriarty;

[I]f you can tell me what teh [sic] "law" on making photographs available to blind people is then I will happily comply.[/quote] If you are in the United States see http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/foia/tal712.txt and http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/guide/1194.22.htm but if you are subject to the laws of some other land, there is a chance that the stricter W3C rules apply (http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/).

You will note that the US Department of Justice guidelines allow for the use of tables for layout but that the W3C guidelines do not. The use of tables causes trouble for non-graphical browsers in two ways. Some such browsers simply ignore table related tags. If you are sighted then you can view your page in Lynx to get an idea of what I mean. The ubiquitous screen layout, with a list of links down the left side of the page, is a navigational nightmare if you do not have a screen. Imangine having to listen to that long list of links just to get to the meat of the page and imangine having to do that on every page of your site. The USDoJ solution is to require a 'skip over navigation' link at the start of the page. But this doesn't solve the other problem.

Tables are a necessary and proper way of orginizing data and some non-graphical browsers have means of helping the user figure out where in the table they are. Imangine an audio browser calling out the collumn and row headings with each cell. And imangine the browser guessing at what the headings are (as some audio browsers do). That's why the W3C disallows tables for layout and requires the proper use of the TH element.[/font]

@jpmoriartyNov 26.2002 — #Ah now thankyou stefan - there's how to make a point by actually showing me how it can work. I do like that actually - it's much easier than the tables and is a lot clearer too. Just a couple of questions:

[list]

[*]it seems that it works using "coordinates" for where the objects should be placed, or margins rather. If i wanted then to put two images next to one bit of text, one under the other, how would I go about that? Would I have to do a second image style with a top margin of ~250? And what about a third?

[*]Are the margins that you quote (eg in the news one) {top, bottom, right, left} or what?

[*]can i include the borders that were previously in the table in this method? Does it allow me to repeat an image for a duration?

[*]you've specified an img style and a .news img style. Does the img settings carry through to the .news img or are they treated as independent?

[*]is there any advantage / disadvantage over specifying date as a class as opposed to using, say, h3? Why not specify title as a class instead of h2? At what point can you start using your own

[/list]
I think that's it for the moment - but looks good!

Oh and thank you for those links charles. I will also try to be more careful with my typing so that you dont have to spend as much time correcting my quotes. I did find it interesting to read on the link you gave which was relevant (since I am outside of the US):
These guidelines explain how to make Web content accessible to people with disabilities. The guidelines are intended for all Web content developers (page authors and site designers) and for developers of authoring tools. The primary goal of these guidelines is to promote accessibility. ... Following these guidelines will also help people find information on the Web more quickly. These guidelines do not discourage content developers from using images, video, etc., but rather explain how to make multimedia content more accessible to a wide audience. [/QUOTE]
Interesting that what you refer to as "rules" are rather specifically titled "guidelines" (defined by Encarta as "official advice: an official recommendation indicating how something should be done or what sort of action should be taken in a particular circumstance", but not, you may notice, as a rule which must be obeyed), and their use is to "promote accessibility". I coundn't see anything about being required to follow them, they more helpfully state that it would be better for all if I did. There is even a section which explains what to do if you do use a table for layout (Checkpoint 5.4) - surely they're not explaining how to avoid the enforcers once you've broken the law! In all, it doesn't sound like much of a rule to me, and therefore I have stopped worrying about the Police knocking down my door and carting me off to prison for breaking the law. I have, however, taken on it's important points and will try to accommodate for the partially sighted and blind surfers who come to my sites in the future.

@StefanNov 26.2002 — #[i]Originally posted by jpmoriarty [/i]

..it's much easier than the tables and is a lot clearer too.

[/QUOTE]

Precisly. That is what makes CSS instead of <table> for layout not only possible but actually desairable. ?

Or another way to put it, you really want to be using CSS instead of tables, but you might not be aware of that yet ?

If i wanted then to put two images next to one bit of text, one under the other, how would I go about that? Would I have to do a second image style with a top margin of ~250? And what about a third?
[/QUOTE]

Theoretically simply adding [b]clear:both[/b] to your CSS rules for the images would automatically fix this, totally irrelevant of how many images you add.

Unfortunately there seems to be a bug in Gecko (NS 6-7, Mozilla etc) that makes it break when you use negative margins.

It appears to work just fine in IE though.

/me off to make a bugrapport

[*]Are the margins that you quote (eg in the news one) {top, bottom, right, left} or what?
[/QUOTE]

No, CSS is always

4 values - top right bottom left

3 values - top right&left bottom

2 values - top&bottom right&left

1 value - All sides (duh ? )

[*]can i include the borders that were previously in the table in this method?
[/QUOTE]

Yes, as I said, instead of moving only your image, move your entire table.

However if all your images are the exact same size I would actually recomend that you make the 8 border images into 1 single image and then include it as a background for the container of your image, ie

<div class="imgcontainer">

<img>

</div>

and this CSS instead of .news img

.news .imgcontainer {margin-left:-120px; float:left; padding:5px; background:url(theBorderImage) 50% no-repeat;}

Does it allow me to repeat an image for a duration?
[/QUOTE]

?

Sorry don't understand what you mean.

you've specified an img style and a .news img style. Does the img settings carry through to the .news img or are they treated as independent?
[/QUOTE]

It carries over to all images on the page. However more specific rules overrides these "default" rules.

is there any advantage / disadvantage over specifying date as a class as opposed to using, say, h3? Why not specify title as a class instead of h2? At what point can you start using your own
[/QUOTE]

<hx> implies a heading in the order h1 to h6. The date is not a heading in this case but a section "below" the h2.

The Title however is a definit heading under the "News-section".

I hope that was a clear enough explanation to understand. If not ask me again.

@jpmoriartyNov 27.2002 — #Thats wicked stefan - could you take a look at my question in the CSS forum too?

Also, the clear:all works (why I have no idea!), but it puts the images right up to one another. I tried adding a top margin, but this moves them all down so it no longer lines up with the top of the news story. What should I do? And I assume that I cant get it to align vertically anymore either (ie can I achieve a similar effect to a valign=middle command?).

What about making it so that the text box doesnt go over a certain width? One of the things I used tables for was to ensure that the text stayed in the width of the window it was in - can I use the margins to limit the width of the text? (will part answer my question in the CSS forum too)

think that's it for now - many thanks again!

@StefanNov 27.2002 — #[i]Originally posted by jpmoriarty [/i]

[B]Thats wicked stefan - could you take a look at my question in the CSS forum too?

[/QUOTE]

Did that already ?

Also, the clear:all works (why I have no idea!)

[/QUOTE]

clear:all is not valid CSS.

Might work in some browsers but certainly not all.

Correct syntax is clear:both (or left or right)

I tried adding a top margin, but this moves them all down so it no longer lines up with the top of the news story.

[/QUOTE]

Add padding to the images, or even margins (depending on you ahve them nested or not).

And I assume that I cant get it to align vertically anymore either (ie can I achieve a similar effect to a valign=middle command?).

[/QUOTE]

Not really no.

For that you do need tables which would alow for 2 columns of the same height.

What about making it so that the text box doesnt go over a certain width?

[/QUOTE]

CSS has something called max-width and min-width. IE is unfortunately buggy with it, so you would need to use eg JavaScript to make it work there.

One of the things I used tables for was to ensure that the text stayed in the width of the window it was in - can I use the margins to limit the width of the text? (will part answer my question in the CSS forum too)

[/QUOTE]

Well, if you use margins based on % you will get that effect partially even without min/max-width.