Book Recommendations

@JonaSep 13.2004

[font=trebuchet ms]Hey guys,

Though I have successfully, thoroughly learned programming languages in the past without a book, I feel that Java will be different and it would be a good idea to learn from a well-written book than from a variety of Web sites. I believe, as a beginner, a book on Java would be essential. I know there are a lot of excellent Java programmers here – namely Buntine, Peo, and Khalid – so I was wondering what books you guys (and anyone else, of course) would recommend.

Thanks. ? [/font]

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28 Comments(s) _↴

@Jeff_MottSep 13.2004 — #Probably <http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/second_edition/html/j.title.doc.html> is one of, if not the best source (written by the creators of Java).

Or <http://java.sun.com/docs/books/jls/index.html> to download the whole thing to your computer.

@PeOfEoSep 13.2004 — #[i]Originally posted by Jona [/i]

[B][font=trebuchet ms]Hey guys,

Though I have successfully, thoroughly learned programming languages in the past without a book, I feel that Java will be different and it would be a good idea to learn from a well-written book than from a variety of Web sites. I believe, as a beginner, a book on Java would be essential. I know there are a lot of excellent Java programmers here - namely Buntine, Peo, and Khalid - so I was wondering what books you guys (and anyone else, of course) would recommend.

Thanks. ? [/font] [/B][/QUOTE] I am not an excelent java programmer lol. I have an ap cert, but its ap java, it is not gui stuff and it is does not have a lot of real world stuff. For some reason ap is aimed more ad methodology even though you were supposed to some programming classes under your belt to take it in the first place... go figure. Ap taught me how to print out ascii art with a butt load of recursive statements, I am definatly going to use for the rest of my life :rolleyes:

@JonaauthorSep 13.2004 — #[font=trebuchet ms]Ah, thanks Jeff! It looks like it goes over all the basics of Java, so after reading this I should be ready to go, right? Does it explain how to write applets, servlets, applications, application clients, etc. using the J2EE compiler (which I downloaded from Java.sun.com already), and their differences?[/font]

@JonaauthorSep 13.2004 — #[i]Originally posted by PeOfEo [/i]

[B]I am not an excelent java programmer lol. I have an ap cert, but its ap java, it is not gui stuff and it is does not have a lot of real world stuff. For some reason ap is aimed more ad methodology even though you were supposed to some programming classes under your belt to take it in the first place... go figure. Ap taught me how to print out ascii art with a butt load of recursive statements, I am definatly going to use for the rest of my life :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms]Hmm, that's kind of consfusing... What's AP Java? I looked at a Notepad Java file (.java) in JCreator, but I couldn't figure out how to edit any code in it.[/font]

@PeOfEoSep 13.2004 — #I have a question too, does jsp act like asp classic in that you are requesting html form data, or is it like when you write an applet or gui where you request the elements and then the elements run server side like in asp.net?

@PeOfEoSep 13.2004 — #[i]Originally posted by Jona [/i]

[B][font=trebuchet ms]Hmm, that's kind of consfusing... What's AP Java? I looked at a Notepad Java file (.java) in JCreator, but I couldn't figure out how to edit any code in it.[/font] [/B][/QUOTE] ap java, advanced placement java. Its a class I took, and you take the ap exam at the end of the year, if you score well its a college credit. Its one of those college board things.

@JonaauthorSep 13.2004 — #[font=trebuchet ms]So, how does it have nothing to do with a GUI? Like, what is it good for? lol. Sorry for all the questions, maybe I'm trying to run before I can walk...[/font]

@PeOfEoSep 13.2004 — #well it was aimed at teaching oo methodology and language structure I guess. It all ran from a prompt.

@JonaauthorSep 13.2004 — #[font=trebuchet ms]Wow. That's interesting... I live just up the road from a college where I could take a course on Java, but I'm not sure if I want to. I looked at their HTML classes, and they teach "How to design with tables" and stuff, so I kind of don't trust them. But, then again, since it's a compiled programming language, the most you can do is have bad practices -- there's no proprietary code, is there? ?[/font]

@BuezaWebDevSep 13.2004 — #I'm currently reading a book that I have to study for Java programming in Uni.

"Java Software Solutions" by Lewis and Loftus

It has a lot of good examples, lots of concepts, lots of diagrams, and it is well written. The writing just flows and it is very easy to read. ?

Good luck mate.

@JonaauthorSep 13.2004 — #[font=trebuchet ms]Thanks, Bueza. I'm going to my local [url=http://www.barnesandnoble.com/]Barnes & Noble[/url] bookstore to check out some books. I probably won't buy anything just yet, though. I'm going to read the online stuff first. If I get a good grasp on Java through this online book that Jeff linked to, I may not have to purchase a book. ? [/font]

@Khalid_AliSep 13.2004 — #[i]Originally posted by Jona [/i]

[B][font=trebuchet ms]Hey guys,

T....so I was wondering what books you guys (and anyone else, of course) would recommend.

Thanks. ? [/font] [/B][/QUOTE]

Well it typically boils down to the fact that which style of learning one is comfortable with.

I like examples of running programs to comprehend what is going on.

So for me when I started learning I boght a book [url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0131483986/ref=ase_deitelassociatin/103-6462000-4957468?v=glance&s=books]"Java How To Program"[/url], It worked prety good for me because every chapeter at theend had ton of exercises for me to practice my currently learned skills.

Once you are upto speed with the core concepts then you can go ahead and buy some advance tech books on Java.

[b] for PeOfEo[/b]

JSP pages are run on server side and they return a response object for browser to display in the page.

What happens is that a java servlet/jsp engine converts a jsp page to a servlet and then returns the response.You will see that when you first time run a jsp page it requires compiling and takes some time to get compiled(though not significant but still)

Once a jsp page is compiled it then is lightening fast....

@BuezaWebDevSep 13.2004 — #Hahahah, if you find an extensive tutorial website, please post it because with my uni, I had to buy this book on Java Software Solutions :mad:--It was approximately $150 CAD. :mad:

@JonaauthorSep 13.2004 — #[font=trebuchet ms]Thanks, Khalid. I'm going to write down the suggestions and read through them when I go to the bookstore, so that I can make a decision based on what kind of learning approach I like to take (usually learning by example code is enough, with some explanation, of course; both example code and thorough explanation is excellent though).[/font]

@Jeff_MottSep 13.2004 — #I live just up the road from a college where I could take a course on Java, but I'm not sure if I want to. I looked at their HTML classes, and they teach "How to design with tables" and stuff, so I kind of don't trust them.[/quote]A college class, or almost any class for that matter is [i]_never_[/i] guarenteed to be any good. You see schools are obsessed with the idea that PhD people are the most qualified. Where I'm at there is a class called E-Commerce Technology. And the teacher's Web site (aparently she has a PhD for this stuff) is built in Microsoft Word. :rolleyes:

And it probably doesn't even much matter what school you go to, since a school's prestige is generally measured by how many PhDs they have on staff.

How many of us here remember HTMLGoodies? Didn't Joe Burns also have a PhD? ? :p

@JonaauthorSep 13.2004 — #[i]Originally posted by BuezaWebDev [/i]

[B]Hahahah, if you find an extensive tutorial website, please post it because with my uni, I had to buy this book on Java Software Solutions :mad:--It was approximately $150 CAD. :mad: [/B][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms]Whoa, dude. I've never seen a programming book that cost more than $80... $150 must suck, even if it's Canadian money. ? [/font]

@JonaauthorSep 13.2004 — #[i]Originally posted by Jeff Mott [/i]

[B]How many of us here remember HTMLGoodies? Didn't Joe Burns also have a PhD? ? :p [/B][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms]LMAO. Yes, I remember... ? I think I'll take a summer course on it next year or something, though, just in case. If I'm satisfied with the results, I may go back to the same college for more related programming lessons.[/font]

@BuezaWebDevSep 13.2004 — #[i]Originally posted by Jeff Mott [/i]

[B]A college class, or almost any class for that matter is [i]_never_[/i] guarenteed to be any good. You see schools are obsessed with the idea that PhD people are the most qualified. Where I'm at there is a class called E-Commerce Technology. And the teacher's Web site (aparently she has a PhD for this stuff) is built in Microsoft Word. :rolleyes:

And it probably doesn't even much matter what school you go to, since a school's prestige is generally measured by how many PhDs they have on staff.

How many of us here remember HTMLGoodies? Didn't Joe Burns also have a PhD? ? :p [/B][/QUOTE]

I totally agree with you, Jeff.

Some Ph.D's are so full of themselves and they don't want to learn something new or learn something the [i]correct[/i] way. AKA web standards, poor Joe Burns of HTMLGoodies. ?

@Khalid_AliSep 13.2004 — #[i]Originally posted by Jeff Mott [/i]

[B].......

How many of us here remember HTMLGoodies? Didn't Joe Burns also have a PhD? ? :p [/B][/QUOTE]

Thats mega funny...?

As a matter of fact recently(since last year) I was asked work on a project where I had to use Java Struts framework.

First I bought the book written by the guy who actually wrote the struts framework. Then I bought another book by somebody else(Turner Bedell - Struts Kick Start), and believe me for making my project work faster I got more help from Java Kick Start then from the book of the Struts creator.

Point being a person with PhD doesn't necessarily mean that he/she knows how to teach, a mere BSc guys probably teach allot better in real life.....?

@ray326Sep 13.2004 — #[i]Originally posted by PeOfEo [/i]

[B]I have a question too, does jsp act like asp classic in that you are requesting html form data, or is it like when you write an applet or gui where you request the elements and then the elements run server side like in asp.net? [/B][/QUOTE] More like ASP.NET.

@ray326Sep 13.2004 — #Bruce Eckels has been teach folks how to grok various languages for a long time now with his Thinking in * books. Folks on a severe budget can download his books for free from his web site.

http://www.thinkinginjava.com

@BuezaWebDevSep 13.2004 — #[i]Originally posted by Jeff Mott [/i]

[B]How many of us here remember HTMLGoodies? Didn't Joe Burns also have a PhD? ? :p [/B][/QUOTE]

http://www.htmlgoodies.com/tutors/me2.html

He actually has a Ph.D in Communications. :rolleyes:

@JonaauthorSep 13.2004 — #[i]Originally posted by BuezaWebDev [/i]

[B]He actually has a Ph.D in Communications. :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

[font=trebuchet ms]Oh my! That's so misleading! :eek: [/font]

@BuezaWebDevSep 13.2004 — #Haha, Dr. Joe Burns isn't so hardcore anymore. :p

@PeOfEoSep 14.2004 — #[i]Originally posted by Khalid Ali [/i]

[B]

[b] for PeOfEo[/b]

JSP pages are run on server side and they return a response object for browser to display in the page.

What happens is that a java servlet/jsp engine converts a jsp page to a servlet and then returns the response.You will see that when you first time run a jsp page it requires compiling and takes some time to get compiled(though not significant but still)

Once a jsp page is compiled it then is lightening fast.... [/B][/QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ray326 [/i]

[B]More like ASP.NET. [/B][/QUOTE] Well asp.net is compiled on ap start as well. I need to hunt around for some articles. It would be interesting learn about their similarities.

So do the elements actually get picked up by the server and run "server side" or what is the deal? I am a little confused now. I mean I know with asp.net you can use an html form then with the form action resend the values back to the server where with a server side script you request them then have your way with them, but you still have the server side element at your disposal too. Do you have to import the elements at the top of a jsp page, or does jsp look at the html portion of your code and cache some information like element ids or what?

@Khalid_AliSep 14.2004 — #I'd say(though not sure) asp.net has to be 99% jsp like(since C# is and the whole framework .net is created to compete with J2EE framework from Java)

@ray326Sep 14.2004 — #So do the elements actually get picked up by the server and run "server side" or what is the deal? I am a little confused now.[/QUOTE] It's a confusing deal so you're spot on. 8) The fact is that both the Web Forms of .NET and their analog in Java Server Faces (Struts evolved) are both MORE than just the HTML and the server side code. They both rely on a rigid naming protocol to bind the plain HTML the browser sees with the OO process behind that and some supporting smoke and mirrors provided by bits of their respective frameworks. These development protocols can be handled manually by the programmer but they're best left to some supporting IDE like Studio.NET or WebSphere Studio.
Do you have to import the elements at the top of a jsp page, or does jsp look at the html portion of your code and cache some information like element ids or what?[/QUOTE] The JSP page is just a class so you have to import the classes that define the objects available to the page just like you have to import classes that will be referenced by any plain old Java class you write.

For the best comparison to your .NET experience, look for the JSF documentation on Sun's site. I think you'll see a lot of similarity.

@PeOfEoSep 14.2004 — #thanks for clearing that up a bit!

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