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Community /Pin to ProfileBookmarkHi and welcome to the site. I'd be first in the queue to point out the deficiencies of the polyglot mess that is HTML, CSS and JS, and that it is getting worse with each new version. HTML was and is not up to the task, precisely because it is a markup language, not a programming language, so how is another markup language going to help?
Hi jedaisoul,
I just got done doing some searching for something that might help get this new markup language running. I came across a whole lot of javascript apps, html apps, DOM, etc... alot of Java too. It's a pretty big mess. Alot of it is really neat, but really complex. The new markup language I posted about is really simple, but it's alot more scalable. I was reading someone else's post earlier about needing a javascript to help determine how to find out the order in which a script is updated, can't recall, but I tried applying the CML code for the application and came up with the code very easily. It consists of only four tags, and five source attributes, for appliance of variation. The tags are port, source, destination, and css. The source code is appendable, by means of (+), so code can be appended as child node code. The source, and destination tags have line access capability, for reading, and running specific lines of html code. It's a really neat source code structure, but I haven't found much interest yet.
I've been straightening it out, and figuring out that most of it can be done using html scripting, but it might require some javascript. So it might require someone who knows how to code javascript. It needs scheme scripts for the tag syntax, and argument schemes. It also needs appliance scripts for appliance of variations, which are somewhat like attributes, but are more like radio button options within the tag in the form of attribute-like arguments.
Know any javascript? Let me know what you think.
ThanksI know very little JavaScript, only what I have needed. I prefer to use PHP where appropriate. Anyway, I can't see how this answers my question: how is yet another markup language going to help when what is needed (in my opinion) is a programming language (and not one bolted on to a separate markup language)?
I might be a bit over-confident, I'm not sure, but so far I've been able to resolve several issues really well with it. But anyway, there's a pretty big difference between html, for example, and CML. It's alot less code, the file structure is alot more efficient, it makes web development alot quicker, not much difference in overhead, and what got me is that I was potentially able to develop web applications without much of anything else other than the lexical structure of CML.
Maybe you can give some examples on what you've known programming languages to be used for in web development. Anything, simple, or complex... the info would help me with my development of CML.
jv1597?Crucially, HTML lacks variables, conditional statements (if...) and looping structures. These are fundamental to any programming language, and are, at least in part, why JavaScript has been bolted on. 
@NogDogOct 10.2016 — #Up to this point in this thread, I still have no idea just what this "content markup language" is going to be, and how it will provide at least the same functionality we already have with HTML and JavaScript -- as messy as it is -- along with what else it will provide, and how wonderfully it will do it while being amazingly simple to learn and use. ?
Got right curious
https://www.w3.org/TR/MathML2/chapter4.html#id.4.1.2
jedaisoul,
We're probably on a different level. Most developers are accustomed to using html, css, and javascript, so it's difficult to understand how another markup language would help. Thanks for your input, though, there are alot of minor details to it. I've been verifying them along the way to make sure everything checks out. Variables are not a problem, conditional statements can be either numerically applied, or textually applied by means of a text calculation as with javascript, to determine the true/false value. It's all in there... Javascript is ok for those who like coding. Sometimes is just too much of a mess.
NogDog,
At this point, I think a new specification is required to get it out for everyone. Although CML acts as a substituent of html, CML semantics are simpler than those of html. It's object oriented, so the text, and image objects are treated accordingly for rendering on the page. That's pretty much it. But alot more can be accomplished with CML, such as web apps, and as I mentioned above, creation of variables, and conditions, etc...Anyone interested in getting in on a new specification for web development. It's referred to as content markup language, and it's really scalable. I would like some help with the R&D, and the workload for submittal of the specs.
jv1597:o You can use html and PHP to align all your issues with CML. Some of addition scripting languages are available to improve your html structure like Javascript, VBscript etc. MiaCharlotte,
That was one of the options i figured. I think it's really cool, so I would like to keep it clean (without the scripting). I've been looking into getting a new specification done, like XML. I'm not sure what it entails yet. If anyone is interested in working on this, let me know. I need some coders for the development side, to get the use case details straightened out to make sure it's all covered, it would help to have some collaboration.
Train,
Thanks for the info. CML can do all of the math listed on the link you posted. I'm still trying to get it developed fully...I think that an example of the same (simple) page writtn in HTML and CML would help to disperse the fog?
When you say "can do" re you speaking theoretically or in reality? I.e. Is it just vaporware at the moment?Well it is somewhat vaporware at the moment, that's why I wanted some collaboration to get it out for standard use. But the source code is structured with a calc component so that you specify it as in the following example:
<source href='stock_value(+89)', c, eq='# * (46 / 100), other attributes..., coord>
So this would take the value at line 89, call up the calc component with the 'c', and perform a calculation with the value called up by '#' multiplied by 46 percent, for example, and sent to the coordinate specified. There would also be calc attributes for matrices calculation, so the calculations are accomplished with matrix addition, subtraction, etc... So you can pretty much do algebra, calculus, trig (by appending source code for multiple coefficient calculations), set theory, etc... @jv1597
Please do not raise other threads on the same topic. On this occasion I've merged the two threads.Was the thread I posted on the javascript forum merged with this one? No, I just posted one on the javascript forum earlier today... thought you were merging that one with this one. I don't see the point of adding yet another mark up system to the existing bunch, your biggest hurdle would be the production of the libraries for browsers to implement and if you want to develop a markup, thats where you should start.
HTML was never intended for the purpose it now fills, it was meant to deliver a web page that would render even if tags were broken but somewhere along the road trip some stuffed shirt morphed the standard to argue that such text should not be rendered, blah blah blah.
So this is the real reason why HTML is broken, apart from the HTML5 standard making vast improvements on the rendering of elements that should smooth out things, JavaScript still has a long way to go and this is where things need to change for improvement.
So next thing is to kill this thread because it is not a query asking for help but one asking an opinion...
I understand your concern... I was actually asking for some help in getting CML developed as a developers tool to make web development easier. So I needed some advice on html/javascript obstacles. As it turns out I was able to get the whole CML infrastructure straightened out enough to get a standard edition outlined. But it does take some work. I'm trying to get the standardization/integration done with some people right now, so I'm waiting for an answer from them. When it's done, it should turn out to be a pretty good option for web development. You're probably concerned about the security risks involved, not necessarily the production of the libraries... It should be pretty solid once it's out. The DOM side, and file access is really secure. It's also a transparent markup language that integrates well between html, and javascript. In fact it phases out javascript entirely, but those would be migration tasks for webmasters... so you know how that goes.
I think you have the wrong idea about this thread. It might sound a bit advertisey, but I'm just trying to get some feedback on what I should be looking out for, and whether anyone has any coding ideas that might help.You ask for help, but give only vague claims of "scalability" and the like. You also seem to contradict yourself by claiming "the DOM side, and file access IS really secure" (as if it exists a codeable language) but then say "It SHOULD BE pretty solid once its out".
As mentioned, I would like to see an example of your code and the HTML equivalent. I can't see that this thread is going anywhere without something concrete to work on... I guess I can give you a sample of the code, but like I said it's not an actual working source code right now, I need someone to work with on the scripting, and specificaitons as a whole. But here is a sample anyway:
CSS Storage:
<source href='path/text_file1.html', 0, attributes…, coord>+css
<source href='path/text_file2.html', 0, attributes…, coord>+css
<destination href='path/css_record.html', 0, attributes…, coord>
CSS Appliance:
<source href='path/text_file24.html', 0, css=1, coord>
<source href='path/text_file32.html', 0, css=2, coord>
+css = <destination clip_css()>
(+css stores only the attributes located in source; css clips are line-appended)
css = <source href='clip_css[]'>
(css attributes are applied from the block in the order specified)
So I need some collaboration for the development side of it outside of this forum to get the specs out into browsers, etc... Thanks for illustrating you ideas. Your comments suggest to me that you actual experience of coding HTML/CSS/JS is limited? If so, I would wonder whether you should master the present technology before presuming to be able to replace it with something better? E.g. You seem to favor inline CSS. Anyone who has built and, more importantly, maintained real web sites will tell you that is not the way to go. Inline CSS might be used for quick-and-dirty demo pages, but there is no place for it in live sites. Indeed there is really no need for inline CSS at all, and in my opinion it should be deprecated. jedaisoul,
I don't know what you mean by inline CSS, but if you might ask for a second opinion on that one. CSS is really easy to apply with CML, and if you're talking about live sites, as in real-time applications, I won't say it's better than what you can do with HTML, because sure you can do whatever you need to do with it, but it's alot easier to do with CML. You can easily setup real-time CSS with CSS records that provide runtime modification to the CSS attributes to get them to change on the fly. You can also modify your CSS setting graphically, by means of a simple UI that allows you to modify them in any order. There's alot to it, I'm trying to get develop it as an html-based markup language, without any scripting code whatsoever. So it will be perfectly seamless with html, and even scripting languages, such as pascal, javascipt, and even java, and c++. It even has alot of enterprise class potential, and for animations too.
I think I need more use case scenario feedback from developers to get a better idea about what the major issues are in the field.
Content Markup Language
Hi all!
I’m campaigning for interest from web developers for a new markup language I call Content Markup Language (CML). Some might say, “it’s just another XML/ASP scheme”, but it’s alot more scalable than any markup/scripting language out there. I’ve been applying CML semantics on any application I happen to come across, and it’s been an extraordinarily versatile markup language. I don’t know too much html, javascript, etc., but I’ve been able to develop chat apps, draw apps, runtime web apps, etc… with it in minutes. So I’ve been posting my proposal, as on Github, for some interest, and some collaboration with whoever can help with the scripting required to get CML out for web developers.
I was wondering if there are any hypertext assembly resources out there that would allow me to create new html tags from scratch. I think there are several options… (1) the tag scripts can be created by html coded scripts to handle the instruction sets, (2) the scripts can be coded in javascript for appliance in html, (3) new html tags, tag schemes, and attributes.
I would like to see how much feedback I get from this post to get the CML coding semantic details posted, so please post a reply if your interested.
Thanks,
Jacob
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@jedaisoulOct 08.2016 — #reply?
0
@jv1597authorOct 08.2016 — #Hi and welcome to the site. I'd be first in the queue to point out the deficiencies of the polyglot mess that is HTML, CSS and JS, and that it is getting worse with each new version. HTML was and is not up to the task, precisely because it is a markup language, not a programming language, so how is another markup language going to help?[/QUOTE]
Hi jedaisoul,
I just got done doing some searching for something that might help get this new markup language running. I came across a whole lot of javascript apps, html apps, DOM, etc... alot of Java too. It's a pretty big mess. Alot of it is really neat, but really complex. The new markup language I posted about is really simple, but it's alot more scalable. I was reading someone else's post earlier about needing a javascript to help determine how to find out the order in which a script is updated, can't recall, but I tried applying the CML code for the application and came up with the code very easily. It consists of only four tags, and five source attributes, for appliance of variation. The tags are port, source, destination, and css. The source code is appendable, by means of (+), so code can be appended as child node code. The source, and destination tags have line access capability, for reading, and running specific lines of html code. It's a really neat source code structure, but I haven't found much interest yet.
I've been straightening it out, and figuring out that most of it can be done using html scripting, but it might require some javascript. So it might require someone who knows how to code javascript. It needs scheme scripts for the tag syntax, and argument schemes. It also needs appliance scripts for appliance of variations, which are somewhat like attributes, but are more like radio button options within the tag in the form of attribute-like arguments.
Know any javascript? Let me know what you think.
Thanks
reply?
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@jedaisoulOct 08.2016 — #reply?
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@jv1597authorOct 09.2016 — #I can understand why most people would think another programming language might be the best option. To be honest, I think it's more than sufficient with even half the scalability it consists of as it is. I've gotten a small bit of feedback about it, and it's somewhat similar to what you're saying about it. I might not have enough information on what it is web developers do with script languages, and other html languages. What types of applications are you concerned about? I can probably go over an example of how to get it done with CML to give you a better picture of how well it works.I might be a bit over-confident, I'm not sure, but so far I've been able to resolve several issues really well with it. But anyway, there's a pretty big difference between html, for example, and CML. It's alot less code, the file structure is alot more efficient, it makes web development alot quicker, not much difference in overhead, and what got me is that I was potentially able to develop web applications without much of anything else other than the lexical structure of CML.
Maybe you can give some examples on what you've known programming languages to be used for in web development. Anything, simple, or complex... the info would help me with my development of CML.
jv1597?
reply?
0
@jedaisoulOct 09.2016 — #reply?
0
@NogDogOct 10.2016 — #Up to this point in this thread, I still have no idea just what this "content markup language" is going to be, and how it will provide at least the same functionality we already have with HTML and JavaScript -- as messy as it is -- along with what else it will provide, and how wonderfully it will do it while being amazingly simple to learn and use. ?reply?
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@TrainOct 10.2016 — #What has math have to do with a webpage.Got right curious
reply?
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@jv1597authorOct 10.2016 — #Crucially, HTML lacks variables, conditional statements (if...) and looping structures. These are fundamental to any programming language, and are, at least in part, why JavaScript has been bolted on.[/QUOTE]
jedaisoul,
We're probably on a different level. Most developers are accustomed to using html, css, and javascript, so it's difficult to understand how another markup language would help. Thanks for your input, though, there are alot of minor details to it. I've been verifying them along the way to make sure everything checks out. Variables are not a problem, conditional statements can be either numerically applied, or textually applied by means of a text calculation as with javascript, to determine the true/false value. It's all in there... Javascript is ok for those who like coding. Sometimes is just too much of a mess.
reply?
0
@jv1597authorOct 10.2016 — #Up to this point in this thread, I still have no idea just what this "content markup language" is going to be, and how it will provide at least the same functionality we already have with HTML and JavaScript -- as messy as it is -- along with what else it will provide, and how wonderfully it will do it while being amazingly simple to learn and use. ?[/QUOTE]
NogDog,
At this point, I think a new specification is required to get it out for everyone. Although CML acts as a substituent of html, CML semantics are simpler than those of html. It's object oriented, so the text, and image objects are treated accordingly for rendering on the page. That's pretty much it. But alot more can be accomplished with CML, such as web apps, and as I mentioned above, creation of variables, and conditions, etc...
reply?
0
@jv1597authorOct 10.2016 — #jv1597:o
reply?
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@MiaCharlotteOct 10.2016 — #reply?
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@jv1597authorOct 10.2016 — #That was one of the options i figured. I think it's really cool, so I would like to keep it clean (without the scripting). I've been looking into getting a new specification done, like XML. I'm not sure what it entails yet. If anyone is interested in working on this, let me know. I need some coders for the development side, to get the use case details straightened out to make sure it's all covered, it would help to have some collaboration.
reply?
0
@jv1597authorOct 10.2016 — #What has math have to do with a webpage.
Got right curious
https://www.w3.org/TR/MathML2/chapter4.html#id.4.1.2 [/QUOTE]
Train,
Thanks for the info. CML can do all of the math listed on the link you posted. I'm still trying to get it developed fully...
reply?
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@jedaisoulOct 10.2016 — #reply?
0
@jedaisoulOct 10.2016 — #Train,
Thanks for the info. CML can do all of the math listed on the link you posted. I'm still trying to get it developed fully...[/QUOTE]
When you say "can do" re you speaking theoretically or in reality? I.e. Is it just vaporware at the moment?
reply?
0
@jv1597authorOct 10.2016 — #<source href='stock_value(+89)', c, eq='# * (46 / 100), other attributes..., coord>
So this would take the value at line 89, call up the calc component with the 'c', and perform a calculation with the value called up by '#' multiplied by 46 percent, for example, and sent to the coordinate specified. There would also be calc attributes for matrices calculation, so the calculations are accomplished with matrix addition, subtraction, etc... So you can pretty much do algebra, calculus, trig (by appending source code for multiple coefficient calculations), set theory, etc...
reply?
0
@jedaisoulOct 10.2016 — #Please do not raise other threads on the same topic. On this occasion I've merged the two threads.
reply?
0
@jv1597authorOct 10.2016 — #reply?
0
@jv1597authorOct 10.2016 — #reply?
0
@rootOct 11.2016 — #HTML was never intended for the purpose it now fills, it was meant to deliver a web page that would render even if tags were broken but somewhere along the road trip some stuffed shirt morphed the standard to argue that such text should not be rendered, blah blah blah.
So this is the real reason why HTML is broken, apart from the HTML5 standard making vast improvements on the rendering of elements that should smooth out things, JavaScript still has a long way to go and this is where things need to change for improvement.
So next thing is to kill this thread because it is not a query asking for help but one asking an opinion...
reply?
0
@jv1597authorOct 11.2016 — #I understand your concern... I was actually asking for some help in getting CML developed as a developers tool to make web development easier. So I needed some advice on html/javascript obstacles. As it turns out I was able to get the whole CML infrastructure straightened out enough to get a standard edition outlined. But it does take some work. I'm trying to get the standardization/integration done with some people right now, so I'm waiting for an answer from them. When it's done, it should turn out to be a pretty good option for web development. You're probably concerned about the security risks involved, not necessarily the production of the libraries... It should be pretty solid once it's out. The DOM side, and file access is really secure. It's also a transparent markup language that integrates well between html, and javascript. In fact it phases out javascript entirely, but those would be migration tasks for webmasters... so you know how that goes.
I think you have the wrong idea about this thread. It might sound a bit advertisey, but I'm just trying to get some feedback on what I should be looking out for, and whether anyone has any coding ideas that might help.
reply?
0
@jedaisoulOct 11.2016 — #As mentioned, I would like to see an example of your code and the HTML equivalent. I can't see that this thread is going anywhere without something concrete to work on...
reply?
0
@jv1597authorOct 12.2016 — #CSS Storage:
<source href='path/text_file1.html', 0, attributes…, coord>+css
<source href='path/text_file2.html', 0, attributes…, coord>+css
<destination href='path/css_record.html', 0, attributes…, coord>
CSS Appliance:
<source href='path/text_file24.html', 0, css=1, coord>
<source href='path/text_file32.html', 0, css=2, coord>
+css = <destination clip_css()>
(+css stores only the attributes located in source; css clips are line-appended)
css = <source href='clip_css[]'>
(css attributes are applied from the block in the order specified)
So I need some collaboration for the development side of it outside of this forum to get the specs out into browsers, etc...
reply?
0
@jedaisoulOct 12.2016 — #reply?
0
@jv1597authorOct 12.2016 — #I don't know what you mean by inline CSS, but if you might ask for a second opinion on that one. CSS is really easy to apply with CML, and if you're talking about live sites, as in real-time applications, I won't say it's better than what you can do with HTML, because sure you can do whatever you need to do with it, but it's alot easier to do with CML. You can easily setup real-time CSS with CSS records that provide runtime modification to the CSS attributes to get them to change on the fly. You can also modify your CSS setting graphically, by means of a simple UI that allows you to modify them in any order. There's alot to it, I'm trying to get develop it as an html-based markup language, without any scripting code whatsoever. So it will be perfectly seamless with html, and even scripting languages, such as pascal, javascipt, and even java, and c++. It even has alot of enterprise class potential, and for animations too.
I think I need more use case scenario feedback from developers to get a better idea about what the major issues are in the field.
reply?