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@PeterPan_321Jan 01.2014 — #Thanks rcmcdee. You know, I'm actually hoping someone will chime in and say something like "Hey now its called YadaYadaSite, is now open source, and version 10.x was just released". But I guess the product was never released so no such luck.
As I said, I was pleasantly shocked to find HS 5.5 actually knew about tags like <video>, but can't understand how that could be. HS was last copyright 2003 according to its "about" box, but HTML 5 is just a few years old, right? So how can HS possibly know about the new tags? Is it possible the tags and attributes get updated by some permanent link to the W3C committee's database? Very mystifying! @PeterPan_321Jan 01.2014 — #
I don't see WSIWYG interfaces as necessary bad. Heck, back when NETSCAPE was around, and had a built in web page editor, I'd use it in a pinch to throw together a page now and then, especially if it was for something temporary like an item for sale. Do you have any thoughst om Microsoft WebMartix? I think its free, but I'm not sure.@PeterPan_321Jan 02.2014 — #
I had messed with a version of Dreamweaver once, a LONG time back, and due to the times (it was around 2001) its bloated code got me very concerned, and so I abandoned it. I don't think that's as big a deal now, because few people are on slow modems anymore, and CPU speeds are 100 times faster. But this was my issue... it seemed that once I started hand tweaking things in the Dreamweaver generated , the tool and I were always fighting each other instead of working together. Perhaps I just never learned to properly override Dreamweaver, but in all fairness I had hoped it would [B]SAVE[/B] me time. One thing I did like in dreamweaver, that I never really say again, was full support for the layering of screen objects, so you could put graphics or rectangles of content anywhere you pleased (not just align="right", left or center).
So anyway, if I do use a WYSIWYG editor again for SOME quickie jobs, I would insist that it at least First, let me generate my own page templates and styles, and allow me some way (perhaps by recognizing a comment pattern like <!-- HANDS_OFF --> ... my stuff... <!-- /HANDS_OFF --> so I could insert some of my own tricks without it fighting me. And as a wishlist item,. being able to use object layers or planes for free placement of content would be a big plus!
I do agree with you... nothing beats hand coding. It just a shame its that way. When I pull out a desktop publishing program, its nice to be able to concentrate on layout and appearance, without worry about markup. I guess thats possible with good web tools too, if you're willing to pay big bucks. Its just that there is so much good open source software these days for other fields of design and engineering, I'm surprised there aren't more good open source tools for web work.@PeterPan_321Jan 05.2014 — #Ha! I just tried using this so highly acclaimed WORDPRESS in an attempt to see if i could build a reasonably simple site without resorting to code. So far I've already uncovered a glaring bug in the way WP imports graphics (it clobbers the transparency in the pallett of GIF files), And no graphic placement ability beyond the usual <IMG> "align" options. Plus, every time you place a graphic on a page, it generate a full URL for the "src" attribute, instead of the more efficient 9and preferred by hosting companies) relative paths. Then when you go to report an easy to reproduce bug, you get nothing but all the typical "9try re-installing this", "try getting this or that plugin", and a thousand other "its your fault" responses rather than a simple bug report. The page layout was crappy (in my opinion) despite trying several "themes", and i definably could have built the page from scratch 20 times in the time I wasted fighting with it. Maybe its good for a blog, or if you want a forum in some linked web area, but not for a site where I need to market my products and services.
OK... I guess I'll go look at Serif. But I have a feeling I'll still be using HOMESITE or something like it for years to come. @PeterPan_321Jan 07.2014 — #I guess what I'm seeing in these replies is that if I want anything GOOD, I'm going to have to spend SOME money! All these, Serif, Mirabyte, they sound good. And like rcmcdee, I'm a little leery of going to a CMS style system Its really an ESY jump for someone NOT used to hand coding, but a huge frustration for a hand coder going crazy just trying to wade through generated code ( with meaningless labels like "id3456" ) to try to find where to tweak a color, and dig deeper to make the change part of the template. Its a good thing I have a LOT of hair, because I just about tore out enough to stuff a pillow messing with WORDPRESS.
Hopefully one of these you folks have recommended will have some free trial periods, and some reviews I can read. My Homesite is starting to show its weaknesses even if it is surprising good for its age, and I wouldn't mind a little bit of "Drag and Drop" so i don't waste so much time getting a page layout to look right. :-) @PeterPan_321Jan 12.2014 — #
Could you post a link to the product you're talking about? Plugging "WebArchitect" into google brought up a lot of things that don't seem to have anything to do with the product you mentioned.@PeterPan_321May 22.2014 — #I know its been a long time, but I have so many projects going its a wonder I even had time to look into any of this. But I wanted resume the thread to mention that I was ORIGINALLY very impressed with the free version of Serif WebPlus, that after seeing the version 6 (they are now at v.7) was on sale for 10 days in May for only $15, I bit the bullet. It might still be on sale, but I have to say now I'm not so impressed. The user interface, IMHO is great, and the number of features is very impressive. So for someone looking for a WSIWYG editor for quick pages, I thought I had it made.
I was wrong. Now don't get me wrong... I understand there is a lot more to responsive web design than just letting the browser format the HTML/CSS text as it chooses. BUT... doing things that way is a hell of a lot more responsive than the Serif approach! With WebPlus, every object on the screen is absolutely positioned and absolutely sized, in both the vertical and horizontal direction. What that means is that a page made for a typical desktop browser is going to be horrendously difficult to read on a mobile device, because the text will not even format itself to TRY and follow the screen size. OK, you can create page versions for every mobile screen size out there, and ask your visitor to try each one until they find one readable. REALLY????!!!! What a waste of my time. I'd ask for my money back if not for the fact that I only paid $15 for it. I'm still in shock though that the product offers so much power to conveniently build good looking pages, only to leave you with pages that are less responsive than HTML pages made 10 years ago! I'll try to export some of my test pages to HTML/CSS files and hand tweak them, but I could have built pages from scratch in Homesite again if I was going to approach it that way.
So even though I never thought to ask, are there any other WSIWYG html/css editors that don't force every object on the screen to be stuck in absolute dimensions?
Homesite 5 user looking for upgrade advise
I’ve maintained a lot of my own sites using this old Macromedia Homesite editor. I believe it was originally supplied with Cold Fusion, and maybe Dreamweaver? (lost track now). The last version I got hold of is 5.5. Its has served me well, and it even came with a basic CSS editor, (TopStyle Lite, v. 3.10). My aging brain can seldom remember all the attributes or legal entries available to a given tag, so I’ve always appreciated its “intellisense” like dropdown menus offering me constant references.
Anyway, I’m just fishing to see haw bad off everyone thinks I am using this old tool. I will say that after a recent discussion involving HTML5, I was pretty shocked to discover Homesight actually knew about <video> and <audio> tags, so maybe not as bad as I think?!
Especially as I’m “between jobs” and can’t justify too much that isn’t free (or near free) right now. But it doesn’t hurt to ask what editors I ought to consider. If it matters, I’m lily going to be learning and working more with these newer HTML5 <video > and <audio> tags soon, and also want to start expanding my understanding of using javascript to exchange data with remote servers and databases, and using functionality such as AJAX and JQuery. Homesite has always seemed pretty weak in the javascript department, but I guess that’s to be expected for this kind of editor. I’ve also felt it left some things to be desired when it came to simplifying page templates and such, and of course its style editor is VERY basic.
I’m mostly concerned, having been away from web work for several years, that a tool that is no longer supported like this will begin to give me grief as new tags and standards are developed. I know there are a lot of nice convenient WSIWYG editors out there, but I don’t think this old dog will ever be comfortable not being able to scratch code.
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@PeterPan_321Jan 01.2014 — #As I said, I was pleasantly shocked to find HS 5.5 actually knew about tags like <video>, but can't understand how that could be. HS was last copyright 2003 according to its "about" box, but HTML 5 is just a few years old, right? So how can HS possibly know about the new tags? Is it possible the tags and attributes get updated by some permanent link to the W3C committee's database? Very mystifying!
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@PeterPan_321Jan 01.2014 — #Serif WebPlus X5 is what I have along with others, though the X5 is a WYSIWYG interface, it allows you to add in scripting and other things that none of the other editors I have are not able to do.
.[/QUOTE]
I don't see WSIWYG interfaces as necessary bad. Heck, back when NETSCAPE was around, and had a built in web page editor, I'd use it in a pinch to throw together a page now and then, especially if it was for something temporary like an item for sale. Do you have any thoughst om Microsoft WebMartix? I think its free, but I'm not sure.
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@PeterPan_321Jan 02.2014 — #WSIWYG editors offer fast results without requiring you to know HTML and CSS coding, which is all well and good. But they often come with some baggage in the form of low quality code. Tools like Dreamweaver have come a long way in the past decade, but you can still run into problems on pages that have been edited many times because each editing session tends to leave behind remnants of the previous revisions.
-- snip --
.[/QUOTE]
I had messed with a version of Dreamweaver once, a LONG time back, and due to the times (it was around 2001) its bloated code got me very concerned, and so I abandoned it. I don't think that's as big a deal now, because few people are on slow modems anymore, and CPU speeds are 100 times faster. But this was my issue... it seemed that once I started hand tweaking things in the Dreamweaver generated , the tool and I were always fighting each other instead of working together. Perhaps I just never learned to properly override Dreamweaver, but in all fairness I had hoped it would [B]SAVE[/B] me time. One thing I did like in dreamweaver, that I never really say again, was full support for the layering of screen objects, so you could put graphics or rectangles of content anywhere you pleased (not just align="right", left or center).
So anyway, if I do use a WYSIWYG editor again for SOME quickie jobs, I would insist that it at least First, let me generate my own page templates and styles, and allow me some way (perhaps by recognizing a comment pattern like <!-- HANDS_OFF --> ... my stuff... <!-- /HANDS_OFF --> so I could insert some of my own tricks without it fighting me. And as a wishlist item,. being able to use object layers or planes for free placement of content would be a big plus!
I do agree with you... nothing beats hand coding. It just a shame its that way. When I pull out a desktop publishing program, its nice to be able to concentrate on layout and appearance, without worry about markup. I guess thats possible with good web tools too, if you're willing to pay big bucks. Its just that there is so much good open source software these days for other fields of design and engineering, I'm surprised there aren't more good open source tools for web work.
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@PeterPan_321Jan 05.2014 — #OK... I guess I'll go look at Serif. But I have a feeling I'll still be using HOMESITE or something like it for years to come.
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@PeterPan_321Jan 07.2014 — #Hopefully one of these you folks have recommended will have some free trial periods, and some reviews I can read. My Homesite is starting to show its weaknesses even if it is surprising good for its age, and I wouldn't mind a little bit of "Drag and Drop" so i don't waste so much time getting a page layout to look right. :-)
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@PeterPan_321Jan 12.2014 — #I am now 5 days into my free 14 days of use test period on WebArchitect. I still have HomeSite/TopStyle loaded but now ready to uninstall them. Still learning the quirks of WebArchitect and trying to understand the differences between the standard and pro versions. I would immediately order the standard if there were clear upgrade pricing to the pro posted anywhere. No WYSIWYG but that is fine with me.[/QUOTE]
Could you post a link to the product you're talking about? Plugging "WebArchitect" into google brought up a lot of things that don't seem to have anything to do with the product you mentioned.
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@PeterPan_321May 22.2014 — #I was wrong. Now don't get me wrong... I understand there is a lot more to responsive web design than just letting the browser format the HTML/CSS text as it chooses. BUT... doing things that way is a hell of a lot more responsive than the Serif approach! With WebPlus, every object on the screen is absolutely positioned and absolutely sized, in both the vertical and horizontal direction. What that means is that a page made for a typical desktop browser is going to be horrendously difficult to read on a mobile device, because the text will not even format itself to TRY and follow the screen size. OK, you can create page versions for every mobile screen size out there, and ask your visitor to try each one until they find one readable. REALLY????!!!! What a waste of my time. I'd ask for my money back if not for the fact that I only paid $15 for it. I'm still in shock though that the product offers so much power to conveniently build good looking pages, only to leave you with pages that are less responsive than HTML pages made 10 years ago! I'll try to export some of my test pages to HTML/CSS files and hand tweak them, but I could have built pages from scratch in Homesite again if I was going to approach it that way.
So even though I never thought to ask, are there any other WSIWYG html/css editors that don't force every object on the screen to be stuck in absolute dimensions?