web database tool

@vbKingNov 25.2003

I found a web database tool called astromark, has anyone here ever used it? It seems to be pretty easy to make database webpages. Let me know what you guys think. Its website is ~~[url]~~www.astromark.com[/url]
vbKing

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Full-stack Developer

68 Comments(s) _↴

@jrbpNov 25.2003 — #well, it apears that they have many customers: http://www.astromark.com/astrocustomers.html

@PeOfEoNov 25.2003 — #Why this. If you are supposedly the vbking, why not use asp.net since it uses vb among other things? I started macking powerful applications pretty fast with asp.net because I went into it with 2 years of vb experience. Just my thoughts. If its simplicity you are after there are other tools too. Like cold fusion for example. It does not appear to be the most powerful server side technology, but it is apparently easy to use from what I hear. Also php is supported pretty well on these forums. I read the description of astromark, and you can acheive all of that functionality and more with any server side language.

@CardboardHammerNov 26.2003 — #"Last Update: 10/19/2002" Looks like they're really interested in keeping their site up to date... Anyone else wondering if vbKing has a financial stake in the matter?

@vbKingauthorDec 16.2003 — #Sorry about the slow response, but I was out of town.

Cardboard Hammer: Financial Stake? You bet I do! If I can save my self months of work and frustration, then that counts as financial interest in my book. If you won't even try the product because their site wasn't updated recently then that is entirely your choice. Some of us programmers simply want to stay slaves to one way of doing things, but that is not a good engineering attitude.

The sheer volume of programming languages in existence shows that some are better suited for certain things than others. I am also C language king and if VB is everything why did Microsoft invent C#?

vbKing

@soccer362001Dec 16.2003 — #I dont know why they invented C# but I do know that my dad uses it extensivly at work.

@PeOfEoDec 17.2003 — #c# is actually a marketing technique, ms was attempting to get more users who are more comfortable with the java & c++ like syntax. A little bit of multi ligual support never hurt anybody. But C# is probably less powerful then vb, I have seen for myself some things that can be done in vb that just can't in c#, c# likes to choke on some session varaibles etc from time to time. I have never seen anything in asp.net that vb cant do that c# can. Just my 2 cents.

@CardboardHammerDec 17.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by vbKing [/i]

[B]Sorry about the slow response, but I was out of town.

Cardboard Hammer: Financial Stake? You bet I do! If I can save my self months of work and frustration, then that counts as financial interest in my book. If you won't even try the product because their site wasn't updated recently then that is entirely your choice. Some of us programmers simply want to stay slaves to one way of doing things, but that is not a good engineering attitude.

The sheer volume of programming languages in existence shows that some are better suited for certain things than others. I am also C language king and if VB is everything why did Microsoft invent C#?

vbKing [/B][/QUOTE]

Your credibility still stinks. You have a total of 3 posts all pimping a product that seems questionable, at best:

--Their product is unsuitable for use outside a closed organization. (Acrobat Reader is one thing, as most everyone has heard of Adobe is well known and not a two bit player.)

--Within a closed organization, it's pointless, as tech can be (and often is) standardized.

--and a bazillion other reasons as well

VB [b]never[/b] was "everything". :rolleyes: VB before VB.NET was only suitable for GUIs/RAD/gluing together items coded in faster languages. VB.NET and C# are exactly equivalent, neither is better than the other. C# was created by MS purely to try to get their hooks into Java developers who are unfamiliar with VB syntax. Or were you "out of town" for that, too?

You sound more like "King Nothing" to me. :rolleyes: "Where's your crown"?

@vbKingauthorDec 17.2003 — #CardboardHammer: You are mean. Nothing is learned from being mean. Name calling is for those with little understanding of life and has no valid argument to put forward. What does the size of the company have to do with it? Companies don't start out as big as Adobe or MS, they have to get that way. And how do we get standardized technologies if nobody invents something new? Look at AstroMark's customer list, I suppose you can teach them a thing or two about standards. A company determines what their standard should be, not you or me or Microsoft for that matter. As far as I know, you don't just create a product and say: "Hey, by the way, this is the new standard. I am requiring everyone to use it." Somebody had to start using Acrobat first. Sometimes the smaller companies come up with something better, because they need a way to get customers from the bigger companies. So, do you only use products from huge companies such as MS and Adobe?

You said the product is questionable? Then did you try asking the makers your questions before spitting your venom? If you find a product from a smaller company that you think is worth a look at, what is wrong with trying to spread the word? I also think Ambrosia Software (www.ambrosiasw.com) makes some of the best shareware games ever. Now, I suppose you think I have a "Financial Interest" in them also.

I know Vb was never "everything". Thats what I said. Do you read a post before you respond? I was responding to PeOfEo, because he asked why I didn't just use VB.

I try different products because I want to know what works best, not who makes the most money. If that product is from a big company, then fine. If it is from a smaller company, then that is fine too.

vbKing

@PeOfEoDec 17.2003 — #This product though is not a stand alone language and therefore has limited functionality. It is free to use a server side language and is very extencible. Data base use is probably the thing people link with server side scripting the most but you can do so much more so why use a tool tha tonly access data bases and does not allow you to do much hands on stuff.

@CardboardHammerDec 18.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by vbKing [/i]

[B]CardboardHammer: You are mean. Nothing is learned from being mean. Name calling is for those with little understanding of life and has no valid argument to put forward. What does the size of the company have to do with it? Companies don't start out as big as Adobe or MS, they have to get that way. And how do we get standardized technologies if nobody invents something new? Look at AstroMark's customer list, I suppose you can teach them a thing or two about standards. A company determines what their standard should be, not you or me or Microsoft for that matter. As far as I know, you don't just create a product and say: "Hey, by the way, this is the new standard. I am requiring everyone to use it." Somebody had to start using Acrobat first. Sometimes the smaller companies come up with something better, because they need a way to get customers from the bigger companies. So, do you only use products from huge companies such as MS and Adobe?

You said the product is questionable? Then did you try asking the makers your questions before spitting your venom? If you find a product from a smaller company that you think is worth a look at, what is wrong with trying to spread the word? I also think Ambrosia Software (www.ambrosiasw.com) makes some of the best shareware games ever. Now, I suppose you think I have a "Financial Interest" in them also.

I know Vb was never "everything". Thats what I said. Do you read a post before you respond? I was responding to PeOfEo, because he asked why I didn't just use VB.

I try different products because I want to know what works best, not who makes the most money. If that product is from a big company, then fine. If it is from a smaller company, then that is fine too.

vbKing [/B][/QUOTE]

pfff... Why are you taking their position so personally? You still sound exactly like you're pimping for them. Maybe YOU think they're worth a look... so look all you want, I don't care. But don't come on here advertising it. :rolleyes: You've done nothing but that while posting here.

Their customer list can wipe my ass. Note: "Some of the companies that [size=4]have used our services and or products[/size]". There's SO much wiggle room in there that it isn't necessarily as impressive as it sounds: I've provided IT services to the world's largest automotive parts company and to the world's 2nd largest chemical company. Sounds really impressive, but if I filled in all the details, it'd be a whole hell of a lot less impressive. Also, it only takes an idiot or two in an organization for even the crappiest software/services in the world to get "used". The bigger the organization, the greater the likelihood of finding idiots with power.

Look at their "Customer of the Year" list. That's probably more indicative of how to judge their product. Check this out from one of their case studies: From a development point of view, Kumar needed to use a tool that required a short learning curve and little knowledge about how databases worked. "I’m a scientist, not a programmer. I can do some programming, but from a software development standpoint, I haven’t worked with databases before."[/quote] It's a tool for people without significant development skills. And it's a Windows only application... pfff... Gee, instead of browser dependancies, let's have OS dependancies... :rolleyes:

If this product could save you "months of work and frustration", perhaps you should look for a different career... perhaps marketing? It seems to be what you're doing here anyway.

I could pick apart their product for pages and pages, but why bother? There's already plenty of reasons in this thread to indicate why this product isn't a good choice for a competent developer.

So if you have nothing to offer here other than advertising, please do us all a favor and either PAY for your advertising or take a hike.

@PeOfEoDec 18.2003 — #calm down children. Lets get back to civil disgussion.

@Paul_JrDec 18.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by PeOfEo [/i]

[B]calm down children. Lets get back to civil disgussion. [/B][/QUOTE]

Lol ?. Agreed.

@vbKingauthorDec 18.2003 — #I am calm. I just wonder why he is so against something he has never even used. My point of view is if you are going to spend the time telling everyone why not to use a product you should at least try it first. Almost makes you wonder if he has a "Financial Interest" against it. ? Besides, if he doesn't want me to "market" a product, why did he respond to it?

@pyroDec 18.2003 — #I think by this point we are all wondering why you are so adamently plugging/defending this product, unless as CardboardHammer said, you have a financial interest in this product.

@vbKingauthorDec 18.2003 — #I am 19, how much of a "Financial Interest" could I have?

@CardboardHammerDec 18.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by vbKing [/i]

[B]I am calm. I just wonder why he is so against something he has never even used. My point of view is if you are going to spend the time telling everyone why not to use a product you should at least try it first. Almost makes you wonder if he has a "Financial Interest" against it. ? Besides, if he doesn't want me to "market" a product, why did he respond to it? [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, I don't have to hit myself in the face with a brick to know that it would hurt. Only people who have smoked crack should tell people why not to smoke crack?

Why respond? You asked what we thought. Careful what you ask for, you might just get it... That, and IF you were marketing, why let you get away with it for free? And either way, why not present the shortcomings and potential drawbacks of the product/company? Do you think THEY are going to tell you? (Actually, they DO, if you look carefully enough and can see past the adspeak.)

So maybe you don't have a financial interest in this company, but given the circumstances, it sure did look highly suspicious.

@vbKingauthorDec 18.2003 — #Yes, I want feedback, but I would like feedback based on the product, not the marketing. I am aware of what the site says. Most of your complaints aren't even directed at the product, but at their website and marketing.

If you download the product and try it, then come back and say here are the things wrong with it and list the problems, then that is more than fine. That is what I was looking for. Pros and Cons of the actual product, not a marketing review of the company. I already said that I care more about the product than the company. I know the company is a big deal in some situations, but however it isn't for me.

You said "Well, I don't have to hit myself in the face with a brick to know that it would hurt", yes that is true, but sometimes you do. Did your parent(s) have to tell you not to touch the oven, because it was hot? Not to play with the neighbors mean pitbull? ? Ect. I am sure there are somethings your parent(s) had to tell you not to do because you might get hurt. Ask them. Sometimes, you need to be told, sometimes you don't.

You told me to be careful what I ask for, I might get it. Well, so far I have not gotten much of what I asked for.

I downloaded the trial version, and I think the site might not explain it fully. Yes, you have to have a viewer installed on the client computer, but it does that automatically, without need for user input, and it does it very rapidly. Even on a 56k connection. The viewer opens regular html pages, so you aren't locked into only using the products files. Most users wouldn't even know that they aren't on a html page. There isn't a big delay while you wait for it to load. Therefore it is perfectly good for an intranet.

So feel free to present the shortcomings that you find in the product, but not the site/company. At the moment that is not the issue I am worried about. Maybe later we can discuss the site/company. LOL

vbKing

@Paul_JrDec 18.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by CardboardHammer [/i]

[B]Well, I don't have to hit myself in the face with a brick to know that it would hurt. Only people who have smoked crack should tell people why not to smoke crack?[/B][/QUOTE]

I think you're going a bit overboard here, using a bad product won't physically hurt you, or cause massive brain damage or some other thing, and over-use of the product won't kill you...

@PeOfEoDec 18.2003 — #what about cigarrettes, or alcohol? Server side scripting can be just as addictive and twice as deadly.

@Paul_JrDec 18.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by PeOfEo [/i]

[B]what about cigarrettes, or alcohol? Server side scripting can be just as addictive and twice as deadly. [/B][/QUOTE]
Lol... ?

@PeOfEoDec 18.2003 — #JSP gave a man I knew a fatal case of carple tunnel for example. It was horrible, blood was everywhere. Many local java users needed therapy after that.

@vbKingauthorDec 19.2003 — #So, has any one here actually tried the product? I would still like to find out the Pros and Cons from someboby else who has also tried it.

vbKing

@PeOfEoDec 19.2003 — #We read up on the faq and the discripting... It is very limit and I would not pay money for it. An actual language would give you more power.

@vbKingauthorDec 19.2003 — #Thank you, that is along the lines of what I was looking for. I would still like some response from someone who has used it, but your answer was still better than what I have gotten up until now.

VbKing

@eclectic30Dec 20.2003 — #vbKing,

In response to your question about other users, I happen to know a thing or two about AstroMark. We bought the product awhile ago, even though my company also uses .Net. When we look at a product, we don’t just look at the size of the company but also the tool’s features, usability, and how good customer support is. Not everyone can be Micro$oft and not every tool fits all needs. Otherwise, why would there be so many tools out there? One thing about small companies is that they will bend over backward to earn your business. We were also concerned about how well tested the product was, since it is hard to see it visibly on the net like ASP and PHP. I understand most companies are like us, and use AstroMark for Intranet purposes. But we thought it was worth trying since we downloaded the demo and saw that it allows us to download thousands of records and scroll or drill down the data locally on our computers. In other tools we looked at, we would have to write tremendous amount of code. AstroMark has the feature to do this built into their viewer, so I don't have to do it. (and that’s a good thing, with all the projects I have piled on my plate)

You could say that one of the main draws for us was speed, since many of our users are on wireless and dial up connections. AstroMark allows us to permit users to load hundreds, if not thousands of records from a spreadsheet in one mouse click and submit the records in one batch. They can also pull data off the server and store it in Excel (or a database). We love this feature because our users used to have to email the excel files to the main office and then we’d merge them all and normalize/validate the records.

Even with all the ease and simplicity, if you want to, you’ll have lots of opportunities to write code. You have to write code for many other things like SQL for database access. AstroMark supports programming constructs such as "If", "while", "for", and "case" statements, functions, variables and constants. Since all the code you write is executed client side, it puts less stress on the server which can serve more users as a result.

It’s not perfect, though. Though the server and viewer work really well, I’d like to change a couple of things in the designer. It’s a little quirky sometimes and the compile time is way too long for my liking. The underlying programming language is Pascal which they call AstroScript. The last time I heard they will be releasing the VB version next year followed by C#. That will be nice, but I wanted Java first.

All I can say to you is, the product is worth a try. The designer only costs about $300, and you can start with a low-end server. They also have a free evaluation version and great support. See www.astromark.com for how to get the evaluation version.

@PeOfEoDec 20.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by eclectic30 [/i]

[B]

AstroMark supports programming constructs such as "If", "while", "for", and "case" statements, functions, variables and constants. Since all the code you write is executed client side, it puts less stress on the server which can serve more users as a result.

[/B][/QUOTE]
Really? If the code is executed client side then this is a poor tool to make a functional website with because it will not work for 13% of the users and then you have the whole issue of it being insecure

@eclectic30Dec 21.2003 — #I do not know if you are asking a question or making assertions of your own.

I did not say AstroMark works for 13% of our users. Where did you come up with that number? In addition, I did not say that it is insecure. Where did you get that? . Frankly, I don’t give a sh*t whether you like it or hate it. The AstroMark we have been using for nearly two years has been consistently good for all needs for which we decided to use it. From happy user base to fully secure data access, and database integrity.

If your assertions were true, I would have advised vbKing accordingly.

I believe technical forums are for the exchange of technical information so that developers can find solutions to their technical problems, as opposed to narrow, subjective and blind attacks at solutions you have not used. As I said earlier, I don’t care what you think.

@JustKIDnDec 21.2003 — #O.K. I don't know any of you here, so I think I can give an unbiased comment.

[soapbox]

vbKing,

What I think I hear you saying and I say all the time is; "Why reinvent the wheel?"

From an IT employees point of view; If I can find a canned program that meets all or most of my needs. Then why not use it? I have enough projects on my desk, and if I can fill the requirements of a project quickly and effectively then maybe I look more valuable to my boss at review time.

From a Contractor/Consultant's point of view; The faster I can meet my customers needs the more money I can make. Because if I have to spend weeks or even months developing something for one client. Then that's time I could be spending meeting another clients needs.

Hence, the more projects I can sell and complete in a year, the more money I make.

vbKing, if you are really advertising. Shame on you! (I believe you're not)

CardboardHammer and pyro,

I don't know, maybe you just aren't compatible with vbKing.

It sounds to me like a guy asked an honest question;
has anyone here ever used it? ... Let me know what you guys think.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't sound like advertising to me!

Why does this seem to be such a cutthroat forum?

Why do you guys like to pick at people?

I don't know about you all, but I use forums to ask questions about something I don't have all the answers for. And to share answers with others when I can.

Soccer and vbKing,

Microsoft 'invented' C# because they got caught perverting java. And had it taken away from them.

PeOfEo,
calm down children. Lets get back to civil disgussion.[/QUOTE]
Good to see you acting like a moderator. Even if it isn't your board.

eclectic30,

Good review of a product from someone who has actually tried it.

Really? If the code is executed client side then this is a poor tool to make a functional website with because it will not work for 13% of the users and then you have the whole issue of it being insecure[/QUOTE]

I think PeOfEo is quoting stats about 13% of users have javascript turned off in their browsers.

I'm not sure Astro qualifies under those stats.

PeOfEo,
I understand most companies are like us, and use AstroMark for Intranet purposes.[/QUOTE]

I think you missed two important facts about what eclectic30 said.

1. It is being used on an [COLOR=red]intranet[/COLOR] (meaning internal) so, no security issue there.

2. It is being used at their [COLOR=red]Company[/COLOR]. Most companies try to standardrize things like software and browser settings. So his company may not have JS turned off.

_________________________________

Please, don't anyone feel like I'm picking on you. I'm NOT!

It just irritates me to see so much bickering going on on a forum.

I'm new here and haven't read very many posts yet. But I'd say the majority of them have been like this one; too much fighting.

Like I said above, I don't know anyone here. So I'm not taking sides. I also have no connection with Astro. And I only know what little I've seen on their web site in about two or three minutes time.

I will say however that I'm not a fan of any product that doesn't allow me my choice of browser and forces me to use ie to make their product work.

That means their product has proprietary code in it that only works in ie. That = Bad!

[/soapbox]

@PeOfEoDec 22.2003 — #but that certainly cramps it wouldnt you say? It could only be used for personal use then. If you are going to run a server and run a website anyway why not make something that will allow personal and public use instead of having the two separate and paying for them both ? . It may be fine for a file server or something on a company intranet but you have more options with a well supported language that runs sequrly from the server instead of from the client.

@JustKIDnDec 22.2003 — #Nobody said it wasn't secure. A firewall would take care of that anyway.

Why can't you use it for both your public and private web services? Did the Astro website say that somewhere? I missed that.

I only pointed out that he is using it on his intranet. Not that they couldn't use it for more than that.

Why are you offended that someone might use another product?

If we all followed along your thinking, then one could say; Why would anyone use IIS when clearly Apache is the web server of choice. "It may be fine for a file server or something on a company intranet but you have more options with a well supported language that runs 'more' securely ..."

@PeOfEoDec 22.2003 — #I did not say I was offeneded. But this has a limited functionality. It is only going to be good for personal use. I frankly dont care what is used rather it be asp php cgi asp.net or jsp, but I do not think this product has any scalability. Earlier it was said it is using java script. If the scripting is executed client side then you might be able to see sensative information right in the source code. Also if many of the scripts, most of them, are client side, if thats the output, then it would be inaccessable also. Whatch adam chime in and say something like asp.net outputs java script :rolleyes: just for the validators and 'shortcuts'. Plus by looking at the screen shots, this looks like an internet version of access. How would you be able to use something like this for open public use anyway? Not saying that remote access is not possible, but how could you allow it and would you want to? In their white pages it looks like if you want to use this over the open net you would need asp cold fusion (those were just two mentioned) or another technology for security any way. So why not just do all of you data access like that. Unless you are acutally using astromark as a data grid grid to access your data similar to how you would in excel or access or mssql server etc. But if you are going to do all the why not just actually use access because you can do remote data on that. I might edit more in later, I have already edited this post 2 times already. ?

Hacker Resistant Code

Unlike HTML browsers, there is no way for anyone else to see your source code through AstroMark Universal. Because all AstroScript code is encrypted with our symmetric encryption algorithms any part of your code intercepted in transit is not useful to the interceptor. On the browser side, your code has no specific memory address, so code hackers will find your code more difficult to break.
[/quote]
well this is not designed for public us e as I though before. You need a special browser. So why would you use this anyway vbking? You can't use it for sites, only for data access.

@JustKIDnDec 22.2003 — #Now you're asking me to defend a product I know nothing about. I'm not even sure that I would like it. As I said before I don't care for programs that don't allow me to choose which browser I will use.

You still seem to be bothered that this application doesn't extend or do everything.

If I'm using a Paint Program, I shouldn't be too upset that I can't use it to browse the web. Although now that I say that, you'll probably tell me about some Paint Program that does have some browser technology in it. And that everyone should only use that one.

What I'm saying (without defending astro) is, sometimes we find a tool that does just what we need it to for that task.

If I need to put a nail in a board, I'm going to use a hammer because a screw driver won't do a very good job of it. But that same hammer doesn't make a very good pliers. Does that mean I should get rid of the hammer because it doesn't meet ALL of my needs? NO, it means I get to get a pliers. (another tool!)

Or;

Why do you like ASP so much? I've never in my life needed to program anything in ASP. So to me it's worthless. There are plenty of other languages I can use to get the job done.

How did you get involved with ASP anyway, if you're so afraid of change?

(I'm not picking on you for liking ASP. I'm just making a point)

Try to be a little open minded to change and differences. Change is good!

Is this dead horse dead yet peo? Or do you want to beat it some more?

@PeOfEoDec 22.2003 — #Astromark might be great for private data access. But it is not geared towards webdesign and if it isnt then why does vbking need it. It seems like there would be no practical personal use. I do not use asp btw, I use asp.net. It runs fast, is object oriented, and it is just the way I chose to go. I had 2 years of vb experience before starting asp.net so it was easy to pick up. I like asp.net and it is not limited to priavte, behind the scenes data access but rather you can make dynamic web sites with it. Why are you making this about asp or asp.net, we can replace asp and asp.net with any server side language in this situation. The only reason why I even mentioned asp.net is because it is often done with vb and the original starters name is vbking. Look at the screen shots and read the white papers on astromark, it is not designed to be a web development tool. So I ask again what use would anyone have for this unless they are a big company that needs a way to do remote data access, I do remote data access myself of cource, but I can do that in enterprise manager or even access but maybe someone would not want to install that wherever they go, or the licencing to put it on a whole companys computers is a little high if it is only used for data access. Just my opinons. Astromark might be great at what it was designed for but I do not think it is useful for anything else, such as web design, from what I have read.

@vbKingauthorDec 22.2003 — #PeOfEo, you said "Astromark might be great at what it was designed for but I do not think it is useful for anything else, such as web design, from what I have read."

How many other products are good at something else other than what they were designed for? I haven't seen anyone making a new animated movie in asp.net, or a word processor with quicktime. Precisely because that is not what they were designed to do.

My thanks to JustKIDn and eclectic30 for some actual useful feedback. That is what I was looking for. Anything else you have to say would be appreciated.

I have been encouraged by eclectic30’s comments to call the AstroMark company this morning. From what I hear, not only can I use the product to create private Intranet solutions, I can also use it to create html inserts using what they termed AstroCode.

With AstroCode inserted in the html document, AstroMark server recreates the HTML to include data elements and enough information for it to perform everything else for me without writing any code at all. They said it is a new feature that will be announced with the release of the VB version. So I can even write my code in vb after all!

I have applied for a purchase order to buy the designer. I will post my personal observations here when I have had some time with it.

vbKing

btw, since PeOfEo is fond of pointing out his 2 years of vb experience, I have 5 years of vb and another year of darkbasic, plus a little C and Java. Now I get a chance to learn Pascal which is used in Delphi. I do not intend to limit my self.

@eclectic30Dec 22.2003 — #vbKing:

I am glad to be of help. I am also a beta tester for AstroMark, and so I am aware of the AstroCode in HTML feature. I am looking forward to deploying applications with it.

ASP.Net is good and powerful. But I am sure you can deploy AstroMark solutions faster.

you said:
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Anything else you have to say would be appreciated
--------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I have just a few words.

Since you are coming from a vb background I think you should know this. There's a company in Britain that has created VB to Pascal converter that I have used in AstroMark to convert my older VB code. I don't have their web site here, but if you send me a private mail I will find it for you. Better yet, Ask AstroMark support, I remember telling them about it a while ago.

But if you must write Pascal code. Pascal is really not a whole lot different from vb. The key differences are:

1) Pretend that everything is OPTION EXPLICIT

2) Use ":=" instead of "=" for assignment. Use "=" for comparisms.

3) A "begin" and "end" is required for compound statements.

4) Case statments use only ordinal types.

5) Use "Repeat .. until condition" instead of "do .. while condition"

6) "Procedure" is equivalent to "sub" in vb.

Almost everything else are the same as in vb. They have extensive materials on the language. They are plenty of pascal books in book stores and resources on the Internet.

Good luck kido and I agree, never limit yourself, I say that to my son all the time.

@PeOfEoDec 22.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by vbKing [/i]

[B]PeOfEo, you said "Astromark might be great at what it was designed for but I do not think it is useful for anything else, such as web design, from what I have read."

How many other products are good at something else other than what they were designed for? I haven't seen anyone making a new animated movie in asp.net, or a word processor with quicktime. Precisely because that is not what they were designed to do.

[/B][/QUOTE] ASP.NET can do many things besides data access, it has the full functionality of a server side language, which means it can access servervariables, write files, set session variables, and do many other things. Astro mark is designed just for web data access, not dynamic websites. It may genorate html but it also requires a special browser and is dependent on java script which is why it cannot be used for public data effectivly. If that is what you are going for you would be wasting your time. I read this on their website....

@JustKIDnDec 23.2003 — # ASP.NET can do many things besides data access, it has the full functionality of a server side language, which means it can access servervariables, write files, set session variables, and do many other things.[/QUOTE]
Now who's advertising?

peo, just give up. You lost. You're out numbered and you're wrong!

@PeOfEoDec 23.2003 — #For asp.net substitute in php cgi jsp or asp classic. I was using it as an example earlier and you think I am only talking about it. Any server side language will add more functionality. Astromark is not a web dev tool :rolleyes:

@eclectic30Dec 23.2003 — #PeOfEo:

AstroMark does not depend on or use any Java at all. You really do not understand the product or you are unwilling to represent what you read correctly. I think you are too emotional to be a scientist.

Go to http://astromark.com/astromarkinfo.html

The first thing you read is:

" WHAT IS ASTROMARK?

AstroMark is to databases what RealPlayer is to video. It allows Web developers and small to large business owners to create e-Business and e-Commerce database applications for the Web, without knowing Java, JavaScript, CGI, Perl, VBScript, or ActiveX."

They have only recently agreed to support VB and C# for programmers. If you read my first post on this thread, I said that I wanted Java, but Java is not even at the top of their list. Yet you accuse the product of using Java as if Java is a bad thing.

It really takes using AstroMark to understand why the technology was patented in several countries including the US.

Java and C++ are my favorite languages, but Iam not emotionaly attached. I do a lot of VB, Pascal, Cobol, Fortran, Smalltalk, and many more. In over 22 years of programming, I have seen them come and go.

You seem to attack anything that is not VB or ASP.NET. It seems to be the center of your world. I have read your comments on several threads regarding how much you hate Java too.

You only have to look at this very site ( right under your nose)to see how much influence Java has. With over 62000 posts and nearly 13000 threads java is by far the most popular Forum you have on this site. It dwarfs all the others put together, including ASP. There is a reason for that. Yet, many of us have used AstroMark and other tools that are not even in the list of Forums.

So stop, think, perform self check. Why are you out of synch?

@pyroDec 23.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by eclectic30 [/i]

[B]You only have to look at this very site ( right under your nose)to see how much influence Java has. With over 62000 posts and nearly 13000 threads java is by far the most popular Forum you have on this site.[/B][/QUOTE]We do not even have a Java section. I assume you are talking about JavaScript, and if so, the biggest similarity between Java and JavaScript is the nomenclature - they are two totally different animals.

@CardboardHammerDec 23.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by eclectic30 [/i]

[B]...

I did not say AstroMark works for 13% of our users. Where did you come up with that number? In addition, I did not say that it is insecure.

... [/B][/QUOTE]

I didn't say you have lousy reading comprehension. Where did you come up with that?

:rolleyes:

@CardboardHammerDec 23.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by vbKing [/i]

[B]PeOfEo, you said "Astromark might be great at what it was designed for but I do not think it is useful for anything else, such as web design, from what I have read."

How many other products are good at something else other than what they were designed for? I haven't seen anyone making a new animated movie in asp.net, or a word processor with quicktime. Precisely because that is not what they were designed to do. ...

[/B][/QUOTE]

Buying this product would be quite similar to buying a product that has the same functionality as Paint, but different steps to get the same results: you pay for something you've already got the ability to do.

[i]Originally posted by vbKing [/i]

[B]... I have been encouraged by eclectic30’s comments to call the AstroMark company this morning. From what I hear, not only can I use the product to create private Intranet solutions, I can also use it to create html inserts using what they termed AstroCode.

With AstroCode inserted in the html document, AstroMark server recreates the HTML to include data elements and enough information for it to perform everything else for me without writing any code at all.

...

[/B][/QUOTE]

Pfff... ASP.NET can do the same without paying more and without needing to learn "AstroCode" :rolleyes:

If you can force your endlusers to install the clientside AstroMark exe, then you can damn well force them to run whatever browser you like with whatever settings you need.

AstroMark is a n00b tool that raises more issues than it resolves.

@CardboardHammerDec 23.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by pyro [/i]

[B]We do not even have a Java section. I assume you are talking about JavaScript, and if so, the biggest similarity between Java and JavaScript is the nomenclature - they are two totally different animals. [/B][/QUOTE]

Never mind eclectic30. He seems to be living in an alternate reality held together by words and parts of words from this thread mixed in with random thoughts...

@PeOfEoDec 23.2003 — #Hey, if he just wants something for data access let him get it. Heck let him get it if he wants it for web design too. Hell figure out his mistake ?

@eclectic30Dec 23.2003 — #Cardboardhammer said:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Buying this product would be quite similar to buying a product that has the same functionality as Paint, but different steps to get the same results: you pay for something you've already got the ability to do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

@PeOfEoDec 23.2003 — #Not at all because astromark can only be used for data access and not for site development. It requires a special browser, and uses client side java script to run so it would not work if it could use regular old browsers because 13% of the interent does not support java script. Also java script could mean a security risk. Which has all been said several times. ASP.NET is just one alternative, the only reason I said you could use it is because it can use vb and the first post was by vbking :rolleyes: PHP CGI JSP ASP could also be used with great effectiveness.

@eclectic30Dec 24.2003 — #No. PeOfEo

You must regurgitate what you have learned so far correctly. Now repeat after me.

AstroMark does not use Java or JavaScript. So there is no security risk with AstroMark

AstroMark has its own interpreter so client browser setting has no effect.

AstroMark is better than ASP.NET, PHP, CGI, JSP, and ASP

When next I type the word, I will capitalize the first ‘A’ and the ‘M’ in the name.

In our next session we will actually use AstroMark to build secure mission critical business applications faster and easier than using ASP.NET

Now, when I snap my fingers PeOfEo, you will awaken and be cured of your bias against different and better ways of doing things.

@Paul_JrDec 24.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by eclectic30 [/i]

[B]different and better ways of doing things. [/B][/QUOTE]
Like most everything else in this thread, that is your [i]opinion[/i].

@PeOfEoDec 24.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by eclectic30 [/i]

[B]No. PeOfEo

You must regurgitate what you have learned so far correctly. Now repeat after me.

AstroMark does not use Java or JavaScript. So there is no security risk with AstroMark

AstroMark has its own interpreter so client browser setting has no effect.

AstroMark is better than ASP.NET, PHP, CGI, JSP, and ASP

When next I type the word, I will capitalize the first ‘A’ and the ‘M’ in the name.

In our next session we will actually use AstroMark to build secure mission critical business applications faster and easier than using ASP.NET

Now, when I snap my fingers PeOfEo, you will awaken and be cured of your bias against different and better ways of doing things. [/B][/QUOTE] I read that on the astromark website. Read the white papers. They are wrong? It says it uses client side scripting, example javascript, to make the thing run faster, yet client side scripting like java script is not well supported and it is not secure. It said it requires a special browser. If this is true it might be better at one thing, simple data access. After that it can do nothing else. So how is better then actual server side scripting?

@CardboardHammerDec 24.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by eclectic30 [/i]

[B]...

AstroMark is better than ASP.NET, PHP, CGI, JSP, and ASP

... [/B][/QUOTE]

That's a load of crap.

@CardboardHammerDec 24.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by eclectic30 [/i]

[B]Cardboardhammer said:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Buying this product would be quite similar to buying a product that has the same functionality as Paint, but different steps to get the same results: you pay for something you've already got the ability to do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You are building a house, you need nails and a way to drive them in the studs. You already own and know how to use the hammer. But here comes an electric nail gun.

ASP.NET is a hammer and AstroMark is an electric gun.

If you reject the electric nail gun, I will just get you some towels and say "Happy sweating buddy, don't lose a finger! "

But of course, your name is Hammer!

? [/B][/QUOTE]

Lousy analogy. AstroMark is an inferior tool when it comes to building web pages. [i]Originally posted by CardboardHammer [/i]

[B]If you can force your endlusers to install the clientside AstroMark exe, then you can damn well force them to run whatever browser you like with whatever settings you need.

AstroMark is a n00b tool that raises more issues than it resolves. [/B][/QUOTE]

@PeOfEoDec 24.2003 — #Its not even a tool for building web pages was what I have been trying to say :o . Its for data access but an actual server side technology geared toward web design is all that in a bag of chips. You might need to do a little more work to get the same reasult with a server side script, because it is not all laid out for you, but from what i have seen on the astromark website about their product, you can get more power and scalability out of server side scripting.

@vbKingauthorDec 24.2003 — #Well, I have gotten Astromark and have been trying it out. PeOfEo, I fail to see any Java and/or JavaScript in the product. I also don't see where on the website it says it uses Java/JavaScript, in fact in more than one place it says the opposite.

The white paper says:

" Each tool in the AstroMark suite is no larger than 2 MB. Plus, because there is no [B]Java[/B] or any of its derivatives, no ActiveX, no COM or DCOM, no OLE Automation Objects, AstroMark has none of their security breaches."

And later on it says:

"Users concerned about security breaches and unauthorized computer accesses can rest easy because with AstroMark:

No Java, Java bean, or Java applets are allowed

No ActiveX or ActiveX derivatives are allowed

No JavaScript or other scripts such as VBScript are allowed"

So, I have been happy with what I have seen in it so far. But now, PeOfEo, I am curious where you got your info about the Java/JavaScript. Could you please post the link so I can see it? I would like to see it.

vbKing

@PeOfEoDec 24.2003 — #Let me just dig it up again...

All code is client side

Support three languages, called AstroScript. PasScript, JavaScript, and VBScript in future releases.
[/quote] it says it in other places in the white papers too.

Browser

Hacker Resistant Code

Unlike HTML browsers, there is no way for anyone else to see your source code through AstroMark Universal. Because all AstroScript code is encrypted with our symmetric encryption algorithms any part of your code intercepted in transit is not useful to the interceptor. On the browser side, your code has no specific memory address, so code hackers will find your code more difficult to break.
[/quote]
its own browser

Client side scripts allows users to download an applet, control, or script that connects to a database. Scripts could be JavaScript, JScript, VBScript, or Perl. Like all Helper applications, each user needs to download AstroMark, but its size is relatively small and downloads in a few minutes. [/quote]

@vbKingauthorDec 24.2003 — #Well, that is what it says, if you only read those lines by themselves.

Your first quote you are reading is wrong to begin with. It says right there in black and white (or black and blue in our case) that those are for future releases. So they may eventually include JavaScript, but they haven't yet. Hopefully, they don't.

The last quote is from the cons section, the cons for [B]regular html[/B] pages.

The second quote, I just don't get what you are pointing out. Astromark doesn't do anything to your browser. I am saying this now, from what I have tried out. It doesn't touch the settings, or anything else. You keep on using IE, Netscape, or whatever browser you used. The only change is that (just like Acrobat files) when you click on a link in IE or whatever, that leads to a .gti file it opens Astromark viewer so you can see it. No different than Acrobat. How is this a bad thing?

So I am glad to see, that I wasn't the only one to read their site, but next time don't take it out of context.?

vbKing

@PeOfEoDec 24.2003 — #I edited my quotes before you posted. Astromark is not for websites. It needs its own browser, people do not want to download a bunch of crap just to see a data base, that is where a server side language somes in. You are just using what the people already have to genorate html which is able to be handled by all of todays browser. The stuff about browsers todoay not being able to handle code, yes that might be true with ie and css to some extent but if you do the stuff right it is not a problem. I have grown weiry of this thread, you said you bought it already? I think you have wasted your money because a server side language is free. But heck its your money, spend it how you like.

@eclectic30Dec 24.2003 — #Why is it that those who have actually used AstroMark like it and those who are angry for some reason that the product even exists are doing what they can to disparage it? Tells you something does it not?

To CardBoardHammer I say; If I only need to use the mouse to connect to a database at design time and AstroMark automatically creates everything for me and I only just deploy the page to the server, I call that the electric nail hammer. I load the nails, then I just position the nail gun on the stud and shoot. On the other hand, using ASP.NET is at least, one days job. I call that the hammer. They both do the same thing except one is easier and faster. In that regard AstroMark is better than ASP.NET.

As for downloading, AstroMark is easier than downloading Acrobat, yet many of us create documents that requires users to download Acrobat. None of our users ever complained about downloading AstroMark because the process is automated, fast, and requires little or no user effort. Just click the demo page on their site and see what happens. www.astromark.com/amdownload.html

ASP.NET is no more than another deception by the maker. First it was VBX, then OCX was promoted as the panacea, it took the industry two years to figure out that it sucked. They quickly changed the name to ActiveX, Again it took the industry another couple of years to see through it, then came COM, followed by DCOM and ASP. All craps. Now it is called ASP.NET which to some extent, is modeled after the idea behind AstroMark. A specialized plug in for business applications. So you can resist all you want, just like Java and JavaScript and all non Microsoft products, AstroMark will take over the world.?

@PeOfEoDec 24.2003 — #What are you talking about. Asp.net is an object oriented extention of asp classic which has been forever. Asp.net can use C# and vb, and many other languages. It has new controls and has speed comperable to php with object oriented feautres comperable to jsp. It is not modeled after astromark. I am not angry exists, I just think it is a waste of money since server side technologies are free and more powerful. Lets see you make high powered web aps such as a forum with astro mark, lets see you make login systems, lets see you do tracking with it, shopping carts, web logs, webservices. I do not think it can be done, I don't think it would be conveiniant for users.

These are just more examples of functionality that can be acheieved with server side scripting.

@eclectic30Dec 24.2003 — #AstroMark is fully object oriented and has been so since its first release. ASP.NET just barely got there, as they claim.

AstroMark can do everything you listed from shopping carts, forums (see http://www.astromark.com/astroforum.html). In fact the AstroMark forum is organized more like other forums with tree view that shows who you are answering to.

For login systems see the demo on their site. AstroMark Server creates logs for user login down to what that user actually did.

AstroMark can auto fit a form at run time to the users screen resolution. Before we bought AstroMark, I would have to include a disclaimer on my pages to the effect that it is best run at 800 by 600 or some thing like that. I also had to force users to use IE5 or better. AstroMark is compatible with all browsers, old and new. Because the AstroPages are not put on the Html web page, your data pages displays separately just like Adobe does with PDF files.

AstroMark may not do everything that ASP.NET does, but what it does not do are not critical to me. Many of those features of ASP.NET present avenues for hackers to invade, violate and compromise your web site. You should see AstroMark's log of hacker attempts to compromise it. these are things IIS would readily allow. Which is why you have to download a patch every few days for IIS. There are just too many security holes in ASP.NET and IIS.

To a user, AstroMark is calm, ASP.NET is not. Do you know how many times I get booted off an ASP site because I went to the bathroom for a couple of minutes, or jsut wanted to think for a minute? AstroMark has no time slice.

@pyroDec 24.2003 — #This seems like a faily big weak point, to me:
To view or post messages in the forum, you need to be sure that you have AstroMark viewer installed on your computer.[/quote]

@eclectic30Dec 24.2003 — #I just want to say Merry Chrismas to all of you, like it or not. Please have a blast and take a designated driver with you.

I am signing off until Monday. The family made me promise to stay off the computer until monday.

@PeOfEoDec 25.2003 — #I could not even install the astromark viewer. I use xp pro, I get an error and the pos stops responding. That is why a server side language is more functional. All that stuff about allowing hackers in, how so? All source code is protected, the user cant access it. Code behinds, dlls, config files, classes, everything is behind the scenes and can't be accessed. With https logins asp.net can bost all of the security you can get with other server side technologies. PHP ASP ASP.NET CGI JSP all are very secure. ASP.NET drives www.battle.net, the blizzard gaming site. If it were hacker vulnerable battle net would not exist. JSP drives www.zipzoomfly.com, if it were hacker vulnerable we would hear about more credit card theft from their direction. I can go on and on w/ each technolgy. If they were insecure no one would use them.

@CardboardHammerDec 25.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by eclectic30 [/i]

[B]... On the other hand, using ASP.NET is at least, one days job. ...[/B][/QUOTE]

What on earth have you been smoking? If it takes you an entire workday to expose data from a database on the web using ASP.NET, then you obviuosly don't know what you're doing.

As for your diatribe against ASP.NET, COM, etc., clearly you're talking out your ass.

Given your apparent hatred for Microsoft products, I find it highly amusing that AstroMark ONLY RUNS ON WINDOWS.

:rolleyes: If nothing else, it OUGHT to be written in Java so it could be platform independant, but it isn't, which is another solid reason for scorn and derision for this product.

@vbKingauthorDec 26.2003 — #Well, I am running XP Pro and I didn't have any problem using the links. I have just downloaded it again using another computer here. Use this link.

[URL=http://www.astromark.com/astrodemos.html]http://www.astromark.com/astrodemos.html[/URL] if you continue to have problems, you may try

calling or emailing them. They have a toll free number which I used to contact them Monday at 800-GENOTEX.

But, am I the only one though who thinks that the only Windows issue, is not a big issue? I have some macs also, and almost all of the programs I use

won't run on a mac (or Linux either). Including PeOfEo's VS.NET.

Over 94% of users are on Windows. Most businesses use windows.

vbKing

@PeOfEoDec 26.2003 — #[i]Originally posted by vbKing [/i]

[B]Well, I am running XP Pro and I didn't have any problem using the links. I have just downloaded it again using another computer here. Use this link.

[URL=http://www.astromark.com/astrodemos.html]http://www.astromark.com/astrodemos.html[/URL] if you continue to have problems, you may try

calling or emailing them. They have a toll free number which I used to contact them Monday at 800-GENOTEX.

But, am I the only one though who thinks that the only Windows issue, is not a big issue? I have some macs also, and almost all of the programs I use

won't run on a mac (or Linux either). Including PeOfEo's VS.NET.

Over 94% of users are on Windows. Most businesses use windows.

vbKing [/B][/QUOTE] Who said vs.net, I do not use that. I use dreamweaver. ASP.NET can be coded on any platform that is not an issue, and it is free to use. Plus why would I go through extra trouble to download this thing, why would a 56k user go through the trouble of donloading this, why would anyone download this. Why are you being stubborn and want to use this non traditional technology when it is more painless to use a more standard server side technology, that is free to use furthermore.

@eclectic30Dec 27.2003 — #I had to beg for a few minutes on the computer to check my messages.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
CARDBOARDHAMMER said:

What on earth have you been smoking? If it takes you an entire workday to expose data from a database on the web using ASP.NET, then you obviously don't know what you're doing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Not any worse than what you smoked. But you make my point for me. If you have not tried to use AstroMark, how can you possibly justify your hatred for the product? “you obviously don’t know what you are doing.”

At least somebody did something, all you do is sit there and judge without getting all the facts. The fact remains that it is a lot easier with AstroMark than ASP.NET. I have used both products, and that’s more than you can claim.

Oh! I forgot. Something about “… hitting you in the face first.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------
CARDBOARDHAMMER said:

As for your diatribe against ASP.NET, COM, etc., clearly you're talking out your ass.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

The “diatribe“ as you call it became necessary, because you have continued to present ASP.NET as the panacea once again, just as was done for COM and all the other HARD products. I could not stand by and let you make those claims, from one response to another. But the fact is, EVERYTHING I SAID IS ALL TRUE! Microsoft has failed to truly capture the internet market from the content design perspective and usability. All they have is the most popular OS and browser. They have only been pure terror to innovative minds in our industry. And with people like you around, they only gain strength. You have failed to dispute any of the claims in that response.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
CARDBOARDHAMMER:

Given your apparent hatred for Microsoft products, I find it highly amusing that AstroMark ONLY RUNS ON WINDOWS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

If there was anything left of your gray matter you should have concluded that I don’t hate Microsoft products. But instead speak the truth about some of their products. My company bought and use AstroMark because it runs on Microsoft Windows. Kapish?

The business community should not ignore other products at your say so, or just because Microsoft marketing say “we’ve got you covered”. Time and time again they make that claim and it fails. Which is why products like AstroMark should be given a chance. But you would rather block that, and have us all dancing to Microsoft’s yoyo music — until they figure it out. Well, AstroMark already figured it out.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
CARDBOARDHAMMER:

If nothing else, it OUGHT to be written in Java so it could be platform independant, but it isn't, which is another solid reason for scorn and derision for this product.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Much like your other solid reasons such as the date on their web site, their marketting, etc. I can now picture you as a serious decision maker.

I am sure AstroMark manufacturers will like to hear this suggestion. However, will that change your attitude? I doubt that very much. I read something on AstroMark web site that addresses this question http://astromark.com/astromarkinfo.html Over 94% of web users use Windows. Can you imagine the cost of creating a product for just 6% of users?

As a user, I am satisfied with it running only on windows, because WE USE IT FOR INTRANET and our users all use WINDOWS! Besides, using AstroCode I could create html WHICH RUNS ON EVERY PLATFORM and does not require a download. So, AstroMark gives me the option of creating for Intranet or for Internet. Therefore your criticism is groundless, Again!

The biggest derision and scorn has already been handed out by the world at large, overwhelmingly rejecting NT, or whatever it’s called these days, for use as a stable, secure, trustworthy server. Of course stating that known fact just made me a hater of Microsoft in your mind again.

@eclectic30Dec 27.2003 — #

--------------------------------------------------------------------
PEofEo

... Why would anyone download this? Why are you being stubborn and want to use this non traditional technology when it is more painless to use a more standard server side technology, that is free to use furthermore.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Because they want to get their work done perhaps. Why do you download Adobe Acrobat? I hope it's not for decoration.

In general, I defend AstroMark because it has made life easier for my team since we started using it. More importantly, because you deride and condemn it and you have not even used it. I find that to be extreamly unfair. I find it more offencive than the worst Microsoft product which you will readily promote over better products and continue to mislead readers of your forum with your bias.

Any and all people I know who have approached AstroMark with a fair mind now uses it, including vbKing who initiated this thread amid attacks by those whose motivations are more questionable. How can you pose to answer a question to which you have no knowledge whatsoever?

Frankly no real computer engineers will behave like you are behaving on this site. You clearly have no business answering people's questions. You should be asking questions because from what I see here, you know nothing about computing!

@pyroDec 27.2003 — #This thread seem to have long outlived it's usefullness. It may now rest in peace.

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Anything else you have to say would be appreciated
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Buying this product would be quite similar to buying a product that has the same functionality as Paint, but different steps to get the same results: you pay for something you've already got the ability to do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Buying this product would be quite similar to buying a product that has the same functionality as Paint, but different steps to get the same results: you pay for something you've already got the ability to do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

What on earth have you been smoking? If it takes you an entire workday to expose data from a database on the web using ASP.NET, then you obviously don't know what you're doing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

As for your diatribe against ASP.NET, COM, etc., clearly you're talking out your ass.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Given your apparent hatred for Microsoft products, I find it highly amusing that AstroMark ONLY RUNS ON WINDOWS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

If nothing else, it OUGHT to be written in Java so it could be platform independant, but it isn't, which is another solid reason for scorn and derision for this product.
---------------------------------------------------------------

... Why would anyone download this? Why are you being stubborn and want to use this non traditional technology when it is more painless to use a more standard server side technology, that is free to use furthermore.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

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you said: -------------------------------------------------------------------

Anything else you have to say would be appreciated --------------------------------------------------------------

Buying this product would be quite similar to buying a product that has the same functionality as Paint, but different steps to get the same results: you pay for something you've already got the ability to do. ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Buying this product would be quite similar to buying a product that has the same functionality as Paint, but different steps to get the same results: you pay for something you've already got the ability to do. ----------------------------------------------------------------------

What on earth have you been smoking? If it takes you an entire workday to expose data from a database on the web using ASP.NET, then you obviously don't know what you're doing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------

As for your diatribe against ASP.NET, COM, etc., clearly you're talking out your ass. -------------------------------------------------------------------

Given your apparent hatred for Microsoft products, I find it highly amusing that AstroMark ONLY RUNS ON WINDOWS. --------------------------------------------------------------------

If nothing else, it OUGHT to be written in Java so it could be platform independant, but it isn't, which is another solid reason for scorn and derision for this product. ---------------------------------------------------------------

... Why would anyone download this? Why are you being stubborn and want to use this non traditional technology when it is more painless to use a more standard server side technology, that is free to use furthermore. ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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you said:
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Anything else you have to say would be appreciated
--------------------------------------------------------------

Buying this product would be quite similar to buying a product that has the same functionality as Paint, but different steps to get the same results: you pay for something you've already got the ability to do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Buying this product would be quite similar to buying a product that has the same functionality as Paint, but different steps to get the same results: you pay for something you've already got the ability to do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

What on earth have you been smoking? If it takes you an entire workday to expose data from a database on the web using ASP.NET, then you obviously don't know what you're doing.
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As for your diatribe against ASP.NET, COM, etc., clearly you're talking out your ass.
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Given your apparent hatred for Microsoft products, I find it highly amusing that AstroMark ONLY RUNS ON WINDOWS.
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If nothing else, it OUGHT to be written in Java so it could be platform independant, but it isn't, which is another solid reason for scorn and derision for this product.
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... Why would anyone download this? Why are you being stubborn and want to use this non traditional technology when it is more painless to use a more standard server side technology, that is free to use furthermore.
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