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@NogDogJun 24.2008 — #Not really enough information there for me to choose. Is this to be a web-based application, or could it be client/server or something else? Are you restricted to any particular platform(s), operating system(s), database(s), etc.? Which are more important: speed, portability, maintainability, ease of development, etc.? Based on what you've said, I'd go for PHP if you want ease of development, and C/C++ if you want speed.
NogDogs questions are very good though.
It seems to be web-based because we have a future plan to integrate the system with logistic company.
Platform could be any, but windows is preferred because some parts of the system we are using now is windows platform and windows OS.
@NogDogJun 28.2008 — #Sounds like a candidate for the [url=http://www.microsoft.com/NET/].NET framework[/url] .@NogDogJun 28.2008 — #
Well s/he did rate it as the least important of those 5 issues. ?
You ranked ease of development as number one. Never having studied any Microsoft language besides Visual Basic 2005, I can't speak for all Microsoft languages, but I found my Visual Basic class very enjoyable, and very easy to learn (the language). Like I said, though, I don't know any other Microsoft language, so that might not be true with a language such as ASP.@NogDogJun 29.2008 — #Yes, Java works with databases (there really is not any language these days that does not, unless it does not want to be used much). Java is probably a very close second to .NET/C# in being the most in-demand programming language skill.
Of course, I'd build it in PHP, because that's what I know best. ?
Indeed you do? I thank God for that every night before I go to bed:p ?
I would build it in PHP as well, but most of the businesses I've noticed focus their web and programming sector entirely on Microsoft products. The college I attend is now offering a PHP class for the Programming and Networking majors, which I'm definitely going to take when I go back. However, at the time of this post, the only Microsoft language that they offer as a class is Visual Basic. No ASP or MsSQL (though my instructor said that MsSQL is very close to MySQL). If I decide to not go into business for myself, I pray that they'll soon offer more Microsoft courses so I'll have a better chance at a job:p@NogDogJun 29.2008 — #ASP classic is pretty much old hat now, though there are still a lot of sites using it so there is still a need for maintenance programmers. But most new development uses the .NET framework, which actually supports a number of programming languages, among the ASP.NET and VBScript, but probably the most important .NET language is C# (more or less C++ for .NET). If your school offers a C++ course, that would still be very useful, plus it's a language used for many types of computer programming, not just web applications. I was under the impression that C# was like Microsoft's version of the Java language (running only on Windows, of course)? Is that not so? @NogDogJun 29.2008 — #I believe it's considered to be most directly descended from C++ ("C#" is supposed to indicate "C raised to a higher pitch"), but it does also owe something to Java and other related object-oriented languages. If you're really curious, you could check out [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Sharp_(programming_language)]the Wikipedia article[/url] , and I'm sure there's lots of info on the MS web site.
Not at all true. C# is a poor cousin to Java, which is the most widely used language. There are far,far more positions available for Java coders than anything .NET.
To judge availability of jobs, seems to me the best way is to actually look for jobs. Visit the top job search sites and count the results from there.Wikipedia as well as Microsoft , C# most directly derives from C++.
The surveys above:
and, yes, they use Google to do a search, but it falls in line with what anyone can find in their local paper.
Last year, I collected newspapers from six major cities over a month and added up the job listings in those cities. (The results are posted on another forum). iir, they were NY, LA, Chicago, St. Louis, and one more. By far, Java lead the list. C/C++ and PHP all outpaced Microsoft anything by a 4:1 margin. Another indicator is web servers and internet operating systems lead over Microsoft products by 3:1 or more.
Don't get the wool pulled over your eyes. Microsoft buys ads. That's why you see them everywhere. Apache and Linux don't buy ads.
Web Development search results from monster.co.uk indicate a trend towards Microsoft technology (at least here in the U.K); as Jeff pointed out this is the best indicator of the way the industry is leaning.
I don't understand the "poor cousin" remark Sir; are we to assume Java is a "poor cousin" of C++ because it borrows heavily from its' syntax? C a "poor cousin" of B?
We cannot compare C# to Java in any practical way because C# is a completely new programming language built from the ground up specifically to target the .Net framework; it borrows heavily from both C++ and Java using the best practices as learned from the past 20 years of object-oriented programming.
C# compiles to MSIL (Microsoft Intermediate Language) that is then compiled when called using a JIT (Just In Time) compiler. This means that only the code that is used is compiled and the compiler can optimise the compiled code to target processor specific capabilities yielding an increase in performance (this is where portability comes in, not cross O/S but cross system spec, i.e., code will be optimised for both Intel and AMD chips)
C# can also be used to create Windows forms applications, web services and ASP.Net pages; you can use a class from a web service in a Windows application just as if it were compiled on your machine.
Other major advantages of using .Net languages include the ability to inherit from a class written in another language or the ability to mix managed and unmanaged code (effectively being able to expose COM objects to the .Net framework using MC++ or C++/CLI).
Just out of interest DrHowardFine, have you ever used any of the .Net framework languages?
Regards
CarlAfter some thought I guess I have to revise that to say, "I stand corrected if you accept Microsoft's public descriptions." They aren't going to come right out and say "Sun won't let us create an incompatible Java for Windows so we've gone ahead and done it and called it something else."
If you examine C, C++, Java and C# you can see that those things C# owes to C++ are the same as Java's debt and the many attributes shared between Java and C# originated with Java. In fact the vast majority of the Java support classes and packaging were copied almost verbatim.
C# was always going to happen, it appeared 3 years before the lawsuit (regarding the failure to comply with Sun's Java specification in the J++ release) against Microsoft was settled; what Sun didn't like was the fact that J++ (and later J#) were designed as transitional languages aimed at helping developers migrate from Java to .Net.
Microsoft created a framework (J/Direct) which enabled developers to bypass Java's class libraries and API when dealing with the operating system, making J++ more efficient at dealing with calls to the Win32 API; this meant of course that programs written using features such as J/Direct wouldn't run on Sun's Java SDK. Java took exception to this (among other things ) claiming that Microsoft was trying to "fragment" the Java platform.
Microsoft's implementation of Java aimed to help Java developers create faster, richer applications for the Windows operating system and to help create portable Java applications whilst taking advantage of the Visual Studio IDE.
J# was designed to help developers migrate from Java to the .Net framework, whereas, C# was designed from the ground up as the main language of the .Net Framework.
I hope this clears things up for you.
Regards
CarlI'm not saying that if you're familiar with PHP, Java, C/C++ and not familiar with Microsoft products that you'll never find a job. But from what I read around my area (both in newspapers and on the web), most, if not all of the employers want people that are experienced with Microsoft products. It could just be where I live, though; I'm not going to hide the fact that I live in possibly the worst place in America. I live in Mississippi, which is the most unhealthy, poorest, least-educated state in the nation (according to a survey), and what's more, I live an hour outside of Memphis Tennessee, which has the highest crime rate of any city in the nation (again, according to a survey).
Yeah, I don't have a whole lot to brag about:p
What is the purpose of the rest of your post. Advertising or education? It looks like advertising.
Have you ever tried to use C on Unix?I just went to the Chicago Tribune Jobs section and did a search for "programmer". It returned something like 432 listings, including CNC programmer and database programmers. But out of the 20 on the first page, 10 were for the type we're talking about (C, PHP, .NET, whatever). Of those 10, seven were for Unix coding positions in C, Java, etc., one was for "Windows", one for .NET and one for a VB programmer.
I was reminded of the time it took for me to compile all those cities last year and I'm not willing to mess with it again.
That being said, the US version of Monster.com showed about a 60/40 split for jobs posted in the last 10 days between "Java" and ".NET" in favor of Java. I also tried more encompassing search terms -- "Java or J2EE or JSP" and ".NET or C#" -- and the results show a 55/45 split also in favor of Java.
So Java does indeed seem to have more jobs (nationally, not in any particular area), but I wouldn't say "far, far more." It's still very competitive.
Java first appeared in 1995 compared to C Sharp's debut in 2001; that's 6 years of growth that Java has over C#. Even with Jeff's estimations at a 60/40 split it shows that C# is gaining a bigger foothold in the industry. In 6 years time I would fully expect to see Java to start faultering to C# the way PERL has to PHP (although why anyone would choose PHP over PERL is beyond me).
Yawn. You need to get this petty idea of competition out of your head. Were Ruby and PHP created to compete with PERL just because they were influenced by them?
The problem that arose from using languages such as C++, VB or Java for the .Net framework were the overheads of the legacy code behind the languages. What we experienced with MC++ was a wealth of new qualifiers such as the __gc keyword and the ambiguation of pointers and handles. The language was getting out of control so Microsoft and ECMA interveined and created C++/CLI. Although the language is better than before it still isn't perfect.
Another disadvantage of using languages such as C++ is the ability to perform low-level pointer manipulation; this means the language can NEVER be type safe and is therefore unable to take advantage of application domains which were introduced by .Net as a way of seperating components without the problems of sharing data between processes.For a brief overview of the advantages consult our good friend Wikipedia .
Say you have a web server application which responds simultaneously to multiple browser requests, you will have multiple instances of the component running simultaneously. You now have a choice, you can either allow those instances to share a process (with the risk of a problem in one instance bringing the entire web site down) or isolate them into seperate processes with the resultant performance overhead; often a number of processes will be working together and therefore need to communicate with each other; because processes cannot share memory a complex marshaling process has to be employed to copy data between processes (the performance issue is obvious). If you want better performance then you'll have to use DLL based components and have everything running in the same address space; if one component doesn't play ball it will bring everything else down.
These are some of the reasons why Microsoft HAD to create a new programming language if they wanted to advance the .Net platform.
Any questions Dr Fine?
If you want to write serious applications for Windows you need to write in .Net. Simple as.
Regards
Carl
Since this is turning into a less than helpful "my language is bigger than your language" discussion and all I've learned of the .NET side of things were MSDN and marketing blurbs I've read for years I'll bid this thread adieu.
How in the world any of that is related to my statement is beyond me.
You treat ECMA as if they are a cooperative organization with Microsoft. You also act as if .NET is the only platform in the world. Leave the desktop and MS is nowhere near a valued player.
Any answers Scriptage?
Ah, forget it. I'm doing pretty good staying away from forums.
I managed to stay off the forums for 3/4 weeks, I think. Then my IQ went up another 10 points. I think I'm going to go for another 10.
,
If you look at the introduction of the C++/CLI specification you will see that ECMA standardised a specification submitted by Microsoft, if this isn't cooperating then I do not know what is:
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/ECMA-372.pdf
No I do not; I act as if the Windows operating system is the biggest platform in the world, which it is incidentally. .Net allows us to easily blur the lines between the desktop and the internet (distributed applications) using Web Services that can not only be consumed by Windows Applications but by anything capable of parsing SOAP objects.
If we remind ourselves of the initial question to which we are all replying:
and his preferences:
My response is that the best way to do what he is trying to achieve is by using .Net. Java will not cut it; not a prayer.
Well actually yes; C++ and VB needed to be extended to be able to target the .Net framework, bearing in mind that this is a new Platform and C++ has been around since 1983. If you do not know how the .Net framework works then I suggest you read up on the CLR (Common Language), CTS (Common Type System) and MSIL (Microsoft Intermediate Language). Microsoft haven't had to fix problems, they created C# from the ground up to target the .Net framework instead of EXTENDING existing languages to be ABLE to target the .Net framework. [B]This is not a hard concept to understand.[/B] Unix has no such problems because it has nothing that compares to the .Net framework.
No I use it becausae you make generalised sweeping statements and do not cite credible references. You don't actually back up your arguments with anything intelligible; this bores me.
This is highly mature and respectful then?:
You do not listen to anything, you do not back up anything you say. It is almost impossible to have a structured, intelligent discussion with you.
Do not quit the forums on a whim, let's have a mature discussion. Why don't you cite some references to prove me wrong?
If you cannot then you may well be better off leaving the forums after all.
Kind Regards
Carl
What language
Dear all,
If I am about to develop a software to use in a production system in a factory, what language will you refer? Also consider a synchronizing of the database with logistic company in the future.
And also it will be helpful if you can explain why you refer the language.
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@NogDogJun 24.2008 — #reply?
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@Declan1991Jun 24.2008 — #NogDogs questions are very good though.
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@kurniawanauthorJun 28.2008 — #Not really enough information there for me to choose. Is this to be a web-based application, or could it be client/server or something else?[/QUOTE]
It seems to be web-based because we have a future plan to integrate the system with logistic company.
Are you restricted to any particular platform(s), operating system(s), database(s), etc.? Which are more important: speed, portability, maintainability, ease of development, etc.?[/QUOTE]
Platform could be any, but windows is preferred because some parts of the system we are using now is windows platform and windows OS.
Which are more important: speed, portability, maintainability, ease of development, etc.?[/QUOTE]
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@NogDogJun 28.2008 — #Sounds like a candidate for the reply?
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@NogDogJun 28.2008 — #As long as #5 is unimportant.[/QUOTE]
Well s/he did rate it as the least important of those 5 issues. ?
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@Joseph_WitchardJun 29.2008 — #Just from looking around (in my area, at least), a lot of companies want people with skills in Microsoft applications (such as ASP.NET, MsSQL, etc.). If you do want to be portable though, something my instructor always drilled in my head (appreciate it Miss Givens? ) was that Java was very portable. But can you use Java with a database? I don't have much experience with Java, so I don't know.You ranked ease of development as number one. Never having studied any Microsoft language besides Visual Basic 2005, I can't speak for all Microsoft languages, but I found my Visual Basic class very enjoyable, and very easy to learn (the language). Like I said, though, I don't know any other Microsoft language, so that might not be true with a language such as ASP.
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@NogDogJun 29.2008 — #Yes, Java works with databases (there really is not any language these days that does not, unless it does not want to be used much). Java is probably a very close second to .NET/C# in being the most in-demand programming language skill.Of course, I'd build it in PHP, because that's what I know best. ?
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@Joseph_WitchardJun 29.2008 — #Of course, I'd build it in PHP, because that's what I know best. [/QUOTE]
Indeed you do? I thank God for that every night before I go to bed:p ?
I would build it in PHP as well, but most of the businesses I've noticed focus their web and programming sector entirely on Microsoft products. The college I attend is now offering a PHP class for the Programming and Networking majors, which I'm definitely going to take when I go back. However, at the time of this post, the only Microsoft language that they offer as a class is Visual Basic. No ASP or MsSQL (though my instructor said that MsSQL is very close to MySQL). If I decide to not go into business for myself, I pray that they'll soon offer more Microsoft courses so I'll have a better chance at a job:p
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@NogDogJun 29.2008 — #reply?
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@Joseph_WitchardJun 29.2008 — #reply?
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@NogDogJun 29.2008 — #I believe it's considered to be most directly descended from C++ ("C#" is supposed to indicate "C raised to a higher pitch"), but it does also owe something to Java and other related object-oriented languages. If you're really curious, you could check out reply?
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@drhowarddrfineJul 01.2008 — #Java is probably a very close second to .NET/C# in being the most in-demand.[/QUOTE]
Not at all true. C# is a poor cousin to Java, which is the most widely used language. There are far,far more positions available for Java coders than anything .NET.
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@drhowarddrfineJul 01.2008 — #...but most of the businesses I've noticed focus their web and programming sector entirely on Microsoft products.[/quote]Why do you believe this? Cause there are a lot of Microsoft ads?! Quit the hype and learn the truth.
If I decide to not go into business for myself, I pray that they'll soon offer more Microsoft courses so I'll have a better chance at a job:p[/QUOTE]If you want a better chance, learn Java and C/C++. You'll cover 70% of the market or more. You're drinking the Microsoft koolaid, man.
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@Jeff_MottJul 01.2008 — #There are far,far more positions available for Java coders than anything .NET.I'm not sure about those indexes for measuring the job market... They seem to merely count search engine results. But I'm sure we've all noticed that the Web is filled with hobbyists and amateurs, and some languages are more appealing to these groups than they are to the corporate world. The majority of language-oriented pages out there don't correlate to jobs.
Language Survey
Language usage indicator. [/quote]
To judge availability of jobs, seems to me the best way is to actually look for jobs. Visit the top job search sites and count the results from there.
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@ray326Jul 01.2008 — #I believe it's considered to be most directly descended from C++[/QUOTE]It comes most directly from Java.
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@Jeff_MottJul 01.2008 — #According toI believe it's considered to be most directly descended from C++ [/quote]It comes most directly from Java.[/quote]
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@Joseph_WitchardJul 02.2008 — #Yes, generally when all of the job ads I read state the three sentences "ASP, Visual Basic, and MSSQL experience required", I tend to think that the employers want someone who works on Microsoft products:p ?reply?
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@drhowarddrfineJul 02.2008 — #No, ray, you are correct. C# is Microsoft's attempt to undermine Java. It has elements of C++ in it but it's competition for Java.The surveys above:
The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. [/QUOTE]
and, yes, they use Google to do a search, but it falls in line with what anyone can find in their local paper.
Last year, I collected newspapers from six major cities over a month and added up the job listings in those cities. (The results are posted on another forum). iir, they were NY, LA, Chicago, St. Louis, and one more. By far, Java lead the list. C/C++ and PHP all outpaced Microsoft anything by a 4:1 margin. Another indicator is web servers and internet operating systems lead over Microsoft products by 3:1 or more.
Don't get the wool pulled over your eyes. Microsoft buys ads. That's why you see them everywhere. Apache and Linux don't buy ads.
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@ScriptageJul 02.2008 — #
There are far,far more positions available for Java coders than anything .NET.
[/QUOTE]
Not at all true. C# is a poor cousin to Java, which is the most widely used language. [/QUOTE]
I don't understand the "poor cousin" remark Sir; are we to assume Java is a "poor cousin" of C++ because it borrows heavily from its' syntax? C a "poor cousin" of B?
We cannot compare C# to Java in any practical way because C# is a completely new programming language built from the ground up specifically to target the .Net framework; it borrows heavily from both C++ and Java using the best practices as learned from the past 20 years of object-oriented programming.
C# compiles to MSIL (Microsoft Intermediate Language) that is then compiled when called using a JIT (Just In Time) compiler. This means that only the code that is used is compiled and the compiler can optimise the compiled code to target processor specific capabilities yielding an increase in performance (this is where portability comes in, not cross O/S but cross system spec, i.e., code will be optimised for both Intel and AMD chips)
C# can also be used to create Windows forms applications, web services and ASP.Net pages; you can use a class from a web service in a Windows application just as if it were compiled on your machine.
Other major advantages of using .Net languages include the ability to inherit from a class written in another language or the ability to mix managed and unmanaged code (effectively being able to expose COM objects to the .Net framework using MC++ or C++/CLI).
Just out of interest DrHowardFine, have you ever used any of the .Net framework languages?
Regards
Carl
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@ray326Jul 03.2008 — #If you examine C, C++, Java and C# you can see that those things C# owes to C++ are the same as Java's debt and the many attributes shared between Java and C# originated with Java. In fact the vast majority of the Java support classes and packaging were copied almost verbatim.
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@ScriptageJul 03.2008 — #After some thought I guess I have to revise that to say, "I stand corrected if you accept Microsoft's public descriptions." They aren't going to come right out and say "Sun won't let us create an incompatible Java for Windows so we've gone ahead and done it and called it something else."
If you examine C, C++, Java and C# you can see that those things C# owes to C++ are the same as Java's debt and the many attributes shared between Java and C# originated with Java. In fact the vast majority of the Java support classes and packaging were copied almost verbatim.[/QUOTE]
C# was always going to happen, it appeared 3 years before the lawsuit (regarding the failure to comply with Sun's Java specification in the J++ release) against Microsoft was settled; what Sun didn't like was the fact that J++ (and later J#) were designed as transitional languages aimed at helping developers migrate from Java to .Net.
Microsoft created a framework (J/Direct) which enabled developers to bypass Java's class libraries and API when dealing with the operating system, making J++ more efficient at dealing with calls to the Win32 API; this meant of course that programs written using features such as J/Direct wouldn't run on Sun's Java SDK. Java took exception to this (
Microsoft's implementation of Java aimed to help Java developers create faster, richer applications for the Windows operating system and to help create portable Java applications whilst taking advantage of the Visual Studio IDE.
J# was designed to help developers migrate from Java to the .Net framework, whereas, C# was designed from the ground up as the main language of the .Net Framework.
I hope this clears things up for you.
Regards
Carl
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@Joseph_WitchardJul 04.2008 — #Yeah, I don't have a whole lot to brag about:p
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@drhowarddrfineJul 04.2008 — #2 times nothing is still nothing. (Yes, it does a lot better than that but...) Why is Monster.com jobs a good indicator but searching Google is not? What does Monster.com have over the local newspaper job ads?Web Development search results from monster.co.uk indicate a trend towards Microsoft technology (at least here in the U.K); as Jeff pointed out this is the best indicator of the way the industry is leaning.[/quote]
C# can't approach Java's usage.
I don't understand the "poor cousin" remark Sir;[/quote]
BS. C# was created to compete with Java. Has everyone forgotten that already after all the articles when this came out?!
We cannot compare C# to Java in any practical way because C# is a completely new programming language built from the ground up specifically to target the .Net framework[/quote]
What is the purpose of the rest of your post. Advertising or education? It looks like advertising.
Why, on this green earth should I want to do that? I don't program in 12 different languages that must compile to one framework just so it can run on one platform. At one time I tinkered with programming in ILASM and C# just to see what was going on there. I didn't want to restrict myself to one platform where I had to buy a new product every so often that wouldn't work anywhere else.
Just out of interest DrHowardFine, have you ever used any of the .Net framework languages?[/quote]
Have you ever tried to use C on Unix?
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@drhowarddrfineJul 04.2008 — #I was reminded of the time it took for me to compile all those cities last year and I'm not willing to mess with it again.
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@Jeff_MottJul 04.2008 — #Why is Monster.com jobs a good indicator but searching Google is not?[/quote]I gave my reason why I didn't like those indexes... because a webpage [i]about[/i] a language doesn't correlate to jobs [i]for[/i] that language.
What does Monster.com have over the local newspaper job ads?[/quote]More widespread data.
That being said, the US version of Monster.com showed about a 60/40 split for jobs posted in the last 10 days between "Java" and ".NET" in favor of Java. I also tried more encompassing search terms -- "Java or J2EE or JSP" and ".NET or C#" -- and the results show a 55/45 split also in favor of Java.
So Java does indeed seem to have more jobs (nationally, not in any particular area), but I wouldn't say "far, far more." It's still very competitive.
C# was created to compete with Java. Has everyone forgotten that already after all the articles when this came out?![/quote]Since all the official statements say otherwise, we can really only speculate, but it's certainly possible. Either way, it is what it is, and we should judge it by how well it works. And even though I'm sure we all hate IE, we should try to restrain our bias when judging C#. Personally, I think PHP is far more deserving of criticism than C#, and the OO features of PHP are also nearly an exact copy of Java's syntax. So let's try to keep some perspective when looking at C#.
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@ScriptageJul 04.2008 — #C# can't approach Java's usage.[/QUOTE]
Java first appeared in 1995 compared to C Sharp's debut in 2001; that's 6 years of growth that Java has over C#. Even with Jeff's estimations at a 60/40 split it shows that C# is gaining a bigger foothold in the industry. In 6 years time I would fully expect to see Java to start faultering to C# the way PERL has to PHP (although why anyone would choose PHP over PERL is beyond me).
BS. C# was created to compete with Java. Has everyone forgotten that already after all the articles when this came out?![/QUOTE]
Yawn. You need to get this petty idea of competition out of your head. Were Ruby and PHP created to compete with PERL just because they were influenced by them?
The problem that arose from using languages such as C++, VB or Java for the .Net framework were the overheads of the legacy code behind the languages. What we experienced with MC++ was a wealth of new qualifiers such as the __gc keyword and the ambiguation of pointers and handles. The language was getting out of control so Microsoft and ECMA interveined and created C++/CLI. Although the language is better than before it still isn't perfect.
Another disadvantage of using languages such as C++ is the ability to perform low-level pointer manipulation; this means the language can NEVER be type safe and is therefore unable to take advantage of application domains which were introduced by .Net as a way of seperating components without the problems of sharing data between processes.
Say you have a web server application which responds simultaneously to multiple browser requests, you will have multiple instances of the component running simultaneously. You now have a choice, you can either allow those instances to share a process (with the risk of a problem in one instance bringing the entire web site down) or isolate them into seperate processes with the resultant performance overhead; often a number of processes will be working together and therefore need to communicate with each other; because processes cannot share memory a complex marshaling process has to be employed to copy data between processes (the performance issue is obvious). If you want better performance then you'll have to use DLL based components and have everything running in the same address space; if one component doesn't play ball it will bring everything else down.
These are some of the reasons why Microsoft HAD to create a new programming language if they wanted to advance the .Net platform.
Any questions Dr Fine?
Why, on this green earth should I want to do that? I don't program in 12 different languages that must compile to one framework just so it can run on one platform. At one time I tinkered with programming in ILASM and C# just to see what was going on there. I didn't want to restrict myself to one platform where I had to buy a new product every so often that wouldn't work anywhere else.[/QUOTE]
If you want to write serious applications for Windows you need to write in .Net. Simple as.
Regards
Carl
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@ray326Jul 04.2008 — #If you want to write serious applications [b]only[/b] for Windows you need to write in .Net. Simple as.[/QUOTE]There, I corrected it for you. The truth of the matter is that most of the development done at the enterprise level for quite some time now has had nonfunctional requirements for security, scalability and portability that Windows, IIS and .NET do not provide without considerable additional overhead on the development and administration staff and process. With some of the JEE servers like WebSphere and WebLogic those are satisfied out of the box with the servers.
Since this is turning into a less than helpful "my language is bigger than your language" discussion and all I've learned of the .NET side of things were MSDN and marketing blurbs I've read for years I'll bid this thread adieu.
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@drhowarddrfineJul 05.2008 — #we should try to restrain our bias when judging C#. Personally, I think PHP is far more deserving of criticism than C#, and the OO features of PHP are also nearly an exact copy of Java's syntax. So let's try to keep some perspective when looking at C#.[/QUOTE]
How in the world any of that is related to my statement is beyond me.
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@drhowarddrfineJul 05.2008 — #Ya' know. You use that in a lot of your posts in the past. You are disrespectful and immature.
Yawn.[/quote]
You treat ECMA as if they are a cooperative organization with Microsoft. You also act as if .NET is the only platform in the world. Leave the desktop and MS is nowhere near a valued player.
These are some of the reasons why Microsoft HAD to create a new programming language if they wanted to advance the .Net platform.They had to create something to fix their own methods. Unix has no such problems.
[/quote]
Any answers Scriptage?
Ah, forget it. I'm doing pretty good staying away from forums.
Of course. But serious coders use Unix.
If you want to write serious applications for Windows you need to write in .Net.[/quote]
I managed to stay off the forums for 3/4 weeks, I think. Then my IQ went up another 10 points. I think I'm going to go for another 10.
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@ScriptageJul 05.2008 — #You treat ECMA as if they are a cooperative organization with Microsoft.
[/QUOTE]
,
If you look at the introduction of the C++/CLI specification you will see that ECMA standardised a specification submitted by Microsoft, if this isn't cooperating then I do not know what is:
You also act as if .NET is the only platform in the world. Leave the desktop and MS is nowhere near a valued player.[/QUOTE]
No I do not; I act as if the Windows operating system is the biggest platform in the world, which it is incidentally. .Net allows us to easily blur the lines between the desktop and the internet (distributed applications) using Web Services that can not only be consumed by Windows Applications but by anything capable of parsing SOAP objects.
If we remind ourselves of the initial question to which we are all replying:
Dear all,
If I am about to develop a software to use in a production system in a factory, what language will you refer? Also consider a synchronizing of the database with logistic company in the future.
And also it will be helpful if you can explain why you refer the language.[/QUOTE]
and his preferences:
Platform could be any, but windows is preferred because some parts of the system we are using now is windows platform and windows OS[/QUOTE]
My response is that the best way to do what he is trying to achieve is by using .Net. Java will not cut it; not a prayer.
They had to create something to fix their own methods. Unix has no such problems. Any answers Scriptage?
[/QUOTE]
Well actually yes; C++ and VB needed to be extended to be able to target the .Net framework, bearing in mind that this is a new Platform and C++ has been around since 1983. If you do not know how the .Net framework works then I suggest you read up on the CLR (Common Language), CTS (Common Type System) and MSIL (Microsoft Intermediate Language). Microsoft haven't had to fix problems, they created C# from the ground up to target the .Net framework instead of EXTENDING existing languages to be ABLE to target the .Net framework. [B]This is not a hard concept to understand.[/B] Unix has no such problems because it has nothing that compares to the .Net framework.
Ya' know. You use that in a lot of your posts in the past. You are disrespectful and immature.
[/QUOTE]
No I use it becausae you make generalised sweeping statements and do not cite credible references. You don't actually back up your arguments with anything intelligible; this bores me.
This is highly mature and respectful then?:
Why do you believe this? Cause there are a lot of Microsoft ads?! Quit the hype and learn the truth. [/QUOTE]
You do not listen to anything, you do not back up anything you say. It is almost impossible to have a structured, intelligent discussion with you.
I managed to stay off the forums for 3/4 weeks, I think. Then my IQ went up another 10 points. I think I'm going to go for another 10.[/QUOTE]
Do not quit the forums on a whim, let's have a mature discussion. Why don't you cite some references to prove me wrong?
If you cannot then you may well be better off leaving the forums after all.
Kind Regards
Carl
reply?