linux or windows

@ukezJan 14.2007

Hi , can anyone tell me if its best to setup my website on a windows or linux based domain host?

i was considering using one of the following website hosts, does anyone have any opinions on any of these?

~~[url]~~www.easyspace.co.uk[/url]
~~[url]~~www.uk2.net[/url]
~~[url]~~www.fasthosts.co.uk[/url]

Thanks in advance.

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15 Comments(s) _↴

@tracknutJan 14.2007 — #Linux vs Windows will depend on what server-side programs you need, or what languages you might want to develop in. If you're considering 3rd party server apps, make sure you find out whether they're dependent on Windows or Linux, or other server features. If all you're doing is client-side components, then you probably don't care what OS your server is running.

Dave

@Stephen_PhilbinJan 14.2007 — #Personally, I'd just make the choice based on the server side language. Or at least I did to start with. I started out with learning PHP, so I chose Linux. Now though, I just go with Linux because it (and all the software I run on it) is just what I'm used to.

@ukezauthorJan 14.2007 — #To be honest with you guys im pretty much a newbie to all this, and im pulling my hair out at the moment trying to work out which to use as i havent got a clue about all these asp, asp.net, php or anything other than basic html.

Ive only ever used the very early versions of flash, frontpage and dreamweaver back in the day so all this server side stuff is totally new to me.

im out of touch with all this, but im rearing to buy my domain name and webspace so i can start playing about with some of my ideas.

im aiming to have a site very much like this one

[B]i want to produce a site like this one.[/B]

Any ideas..?

click here and tell me what option you would use please.

@ray326Jan 14.2007 — #Well that one is running on the Windows servers of some application service provider. I assume they using .NET (C#/VB.NET) on the back end. With an outfit like that you won't get a choice anyway.

@drhowarddrfineJan 15.2007 — #Go with a Linux/BSD server. The tools you use will be available everywhere and are cheaper and easier to use and learn.

@Stephen_PhilbinJan 15.2007 — #Ok. With threads like these; As much as I try not to be, I'm still rather biased towards Linux in both my opinion and advice. You've already seen my rather generic response of "just go with whichever best supports your server side language of choice", but seeing as you do not yet have a server side language of choice, you have all options wide open to you.

I don't think choosing either Linux or Windows would make the slightest bit of difference to you right now, but I would imagine the importance of your decision will present it's self in the rather near future.

Most people starting out in web development tend not to realize the distinction between what can be done in each side of web development (or even that there are two sides of web development). They tend to just concern themselves with the key skills of making the HTML they write appear as they intended on a web page. I started in exactly the same way. When you're doing that, the choice of host makes pretty much no difference at all. The thing is that once you get the basics down, you soon start wanting to make your pages [i][b]do[/b][/i] things. That's where the choice of a web host counts the most.

Most people chose their web hosting operating system (Linux/Windows/BSD/etc.) either by random, or whichever is the cheapest (or sometimes just based on what some scripts they downloaded tells them to use) and then from there, they just get into whichever server side language the host natively supports.

Before I get into the basics of server-side languages, I should make three quick(ish) clarfications:

1) The two sides of web development that I mentioned (incase you hadn't already guessed) are the "server side" and the "client side". "Client side" meaning what happens with the stuff/code you made after it has been sent from your web server to whoever downloaded it from your server. Typically HTML and Javascript. "Server side" meaning what happens with the stuff/code you made [b]before[/b] it has been sent from your web server to whoever downloaded it from your server. Typically PHP and asp or asp.Net

2) I have as good as zero experience with asp and asp.Net. The info and opinion of asp I give is only from what others have told me and information in the public domain.

3) PHP natively runs (performs to it's maximum potential) on Linux and the same can be said about asp/asp.Net and Windows.

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[i]Remeber this is just opinion[/i].

When it comes to making pages [b]do[/b] things, asp and PHP are pretty much equally capable. At least at the entry level they are anyway. The biggest differences (for someone just starting out) are not so much the speed and capability of the server side language, but more to do with how you will make the code that makes everything happen.

[i][[Here's a bit of that bias coming your way]][/i] With PHP, you can use almost any plain text editor to write the code that makes the magic happen. That's the standard way of learning PHP. You just look at [url=http://www.php.net/manual/en/]the PHP manual[/url] and start tinkering with what you have learned from it. You can just write your code and see what happens. It doesn't matter if you get it wrong (which everyone invariably does whilst learning) because you can just go back to learn even more and find out where you went wrong. It doesn't cost a penny to study any part of the full and complete documentation of PHP (by that I mean the manual) or to write the code and put it on a PHP enabled server. Almost every piece of software that people use to enable PHP to do even more cool things is also free too.

I've heard people complain about the cost of learning asp.Net etc., but I've never known any solid specifics about what is meant by the "cost" and where it comes from. I know there are licensing fees involved in asp.Net and it's hosting, but I'm under the impression that with regards to hosting, the host you are hiring the web space from tends to absorb these costs anyway.

I've never seen any open and freely accessible documentation of the asp.Net language, but that may well be because I've never actually tried looking for it. I doubt even Microsoft would charge people to learn how to do things with asp.Net because it would just pointlessly hinder adoption into the development market. I can only assume that documentation comes with these IDE's (IDE means "Integrated Development Environment". At the most basic level: A program you use to write your code) that I see advertised as the latest thing you should use to develop in the various Microsoft language technologies. For more reliable information though, you'd have to get opinion for someone that actually uses those languages and IDE's.

This talk of IDE's actually brings me to my next point. I've heard it said that asp/asp.Net is free to write, yet I often see advertisements for the latest "trial version" of some IDE you're supposed to use for making programs and things in whatever Microsoft technology the advert is pushing, In hopes that you'll pay for the full version of the IDE. Make what you will of that. Your guess is as good as mine. As far as I'm concerned, my first IDE was Notepad. That's all I used to write my PHP for about three months.

As far as speed goes, to my knowledge, asp.Net is the faster of the two when run alone without having to interact with any other programs (though I think PHP version 5 has made significant improvements to close the gap). I'll not bother you with details about why, seeing as this post has already turned out to be rather larger than I originally intended anyway. That said, the most common reason for using a server side language is to interact with other servers and machines to give the person visiting your site a page that simply would not otherwise be possible. I know you can put together PHP in a way that allows you to pretty much customise it to allow for direct communication between other programs and machines at the time of installation (somthing I do every time I install PHP and all the other stuff that I use with it), but based on what I've heard from users of asp, I'm not so sure about getting such a close level of integration (and therefore the speed of communication between applications and machines). Some of the questions I've seen asked about how to get asp(.Net) to send a query to a program that in turn pulls data out of a database have just left me thinking "Why bother?". Though in fairness, someone that is familiar with only Microsoft technologies might well wonder what all the fuss is about and think the same thing in kind about programs commonly run on Linux.

On the far end of the learning curve are what's called the "low(er) level languages". This post is already long enough as it is, so I won't get into why they're called "low-level languages", but just think of lower meaning more complex and intricate (don't make the mistake of thinking low-level means "easy"). Both asp.Net and PHP are languages that are in turn made from a lower level language. You may well one day come to decide that you don't want to bother with these in-between languages and take a bite straight off the bone. This is where my most fundamental preference for Linux lies.

Most programs you install on a computer are written in a language called "C". There's a few different variations on "C". If you're into video games, then you'll probably be most familiar with "C++". "C" (or at least some very close relative) is usually used to make programs for most computers. The same is true for programs running with servers. Instead of writing your web programs in PHP or asp(.Net), you can usually just write them in some form of C which can be very handy when you're making web based programs that serve a very specific purpose and are likely to do so for a large number of visitors and for a very long time. It can also be really cool knowing a C language that works on your computer just so that you can make stuff for yourself.

@Stephen_PhilbinJan 15.2007 — #Now as far as I know, up until Windows XP, you have three main options regarding C. You can program with C, C++, and C# (I tend to pronounce that last one as "C hash", though I think the correct pronunciation is "C sharp"). C# is a language made by Microsoft. I think you're supposed to write it in the same IDE as asp.Net etc.. Originally my assumption was that C# was not at the same low level as C and C++, though after thinking about it for a while, I figured that wouldn't make much sense. So I can only presume that the language was developed in an effort to skirt around and avoid problems/exploits with the Windows operating system, whilst providing a consistent API (API means Abstract Program Interface. It's basically the code language you use to make programs) that works on any computer capable of running Windows. I've read that "The Windows C API is depreciated" (In the world of code and programs, "depreciated" tends to mean "Try to use it less because in the next version we're cutting it out and it won't be there any more"). Now whether that means C and C++, or just C, I'm not sure. After reading about [url=http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3638741]the issues some security vendors are having with deploying their programs on Vista[/url], I can only assume the intent is to eventually have C# as the only C-like API with which people can write programs for Windows so that people are kept out of the parts of the operating system where the most damage can be done and they only have access to an API that is under the control of Microsoft. Presumably allowing them to spend less time worrying about whether their operating system is secure and stable, and more time coming up with nice sounding tag-lines, cool sounding buzz-words and drawing up lists of every conceivable age/sex/ethnicity to include in their adverts to show how much they care about everyone. (Yikes. That was quite a dive into Microsoft-bashing moron territory there wasn't it. Oh well.)

Linux on the other hand, doesn't use C#, but does use C and C++. I would imagine it will continue to do so for the forseeable future too. Which is very much how I prefer it. A straight-foward and secure operating system that gives you the freedom to make pretty much whatever you like for it.

I realize that towards the end of this that I've tailed off into things you probably won't be concerning yourself with for years to come, but I was just trying to give you a quick skip over what I see as the main points of a choice between the two systems, starting at the beginner level right the way through to bespoke enterprise level software development. Do keep in mind though that this post (or rather these posts given that it is now so long it has to be split over two posts) is/are made with more than just a pinch of bias. With any luck, someone will come along and rebut much/all of my Microsoft-bashing mischief and give us both an education on [i]that side of the coin[/i]. ?

@tracknutJan 15.2007 — #Wow, interesting reading Stephen.

Another thought for the OP. Many hosting services offer both operating systems, and a switch from one to the other can be a fully automated process. I use GoDaddy, for example, and when I've needed to switch from Windows to Linux or the other way around, I can do that from their control panel directly, and within a couple minutes it's done. GoDaddy is just my example, I'm sure many hosts can do the same thing. So if you get your choice "wrong" at first, don't worry too much...

Dave

@ukezauthorJan 15.2007 — #Excellent post Stephen, many thanks for your time.

I reckon i'll just buy the linux one first, and see how it goes. If it turns out i have to change to windows at a later date i'll just have to swallow the cost.

You know what would be cool, a poll on this site that displays the most used webhost operating system.

Or has one already been created??

i'll look into that tracknut, thanks.

@ukezauthorJan 15.2007 — #quick question before i venture on, can you recommend any Windows software with good support for linux server side web development, or should i just use dreamweaver.?.

One last thing, is it possible with PHP, CGI or Perl to develop an online catalogue of some type which could enable me to see which items my site visitors are paying most interest in?

@drhowarddrfineJan 15.2007 — #is it possible with PHP, CGI or Perl to develop an online catalogue[/QUOTE]Yes.
I think the correct pronunciation is "C sharp"[/QUOTE]It is.
So I can only presume that the language was developed in an effort to skirt around and avoid problems/exploits with the Windows operating system[/QUOTE]C# is Microsoft's Java.

More after my dinner.

@drhowarddrfineJan 15.2007 — #It's true about the IDEs needed, or perceived to be needed, to develop Microsoft software. It almost seems like everyone must get Visual Studio to do anything, even though this isn't true.

The biggest problem I had, when I first looked into doing web development years ago, was every time I wanted to tie into something else, as Stephen mentioned above, there was some other 'technology' you had to learn and that other technology came with a price tag.

@Stephen_PhilbinJan 15.2007 — #C# is Microsoft's Java.[/QUOTE]

It's compiled at runtime? I thought it was compiled just the once?

@drhowarddrfineJan 16.2007 — #It's compiled at runtime, yes, into their IL language. But then you don't need to recompile it to ilasm after that, though there is a sort of garbage collection going on there. So the first run is slow but later runs are faster. In any case, it's never compiled to a binary and only runs the ilasm stuff.

@ukezauthorJan 16.2007 — #thanks drhowarddrfine for answering my question regarding the online catalogue.

thanks all of you for your input, you're all very helpful...