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Jul 19.2003

Does anybody know any good CSS definition list? I’m trying to create a CSS file for this site:

[URL]http://kd7pyo.infinitypages.com[/URL]

But I’m not sure where to start. I don’t know how to create a CSS file. So could someone point me in the direction of a definition list please. I would also take anything from anybody who would just like to help me make it. I could give you the font styles and stuff I have on my page and then someone could make up a quick CSS file for me if any body feels like it! Thanks. ?

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@CharlesJul 19.2003 — [font=georgia]You need to start with valid HTML, which you don't have. Get rid of using tables for layout and start with something that works and run the thing through the HTML validator (http://validator.w3.org/) until you come out with no errors. And use the Strict DTD. At this stage your page will be rather bland, but it should work on [i]any[/i] browser.

Then add the CSS.

See http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/ for the low down and http://www.glish.com/css/ for some layout techniques.[/font]
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@Da_WarriahJul 20.2003 — [i]Originally posted by mjdimick [/i]

[B]Does anybody know any good CSS definition list?[/B][/QUOTE]

http://builder.cnet.com/webbuilding/pages/Authoring/CSS/table.html
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@JickauthorJul 20.2003 — I inserted this into the top of my index.php file because I was gonna try to fix my HTML so it was complient with W3C:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

But once I inserted it my Iframe disapeared. What could be wrong?
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@pyroJul 20.2003 — You need the frameset doctype, which can be found at http://www.alistapart.com/stories/doctype/
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@JickauthorJul 21.2003 — Ok, I went there and looked and got toatally lost. I tried this:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">

I put that at the top of my page and it still makes my Iframe dissapear. I think either I do not have the right code above or there is another peice I'm missing all togeather. Can someone post an example of how my page should look? If you decide to help me then please post a whole example including the head and everything so I can get the feel of where I put the doctype stuff. Thanks. ?
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@CharlesJul 21.2003 — [font=georgia]I think that things would go much more smoothly if you post your URL.[/font]
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@Da_WarriahJul 21.2003 — oh, well if its an iframe, then you need the transitional/loose doctype if i remember correctly...

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

frameset only deals with regular frames, not iframes...however, it still would be better with your URL?
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@JickauthorJul 21.2003 — I was wundering what importance the part in bold below has because I just put this and it worked fine: <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">. So why do I need the part in bold below?

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" [B]"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">[/B]

And if it is important is there a strick version? Thanks for all your help. ?
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@CharlesJul 21.2003 — [font=georgia]1) The frameset DTD includes everything in the transitional DTD and adds frames.

2) The URL part of the DOCTYPE is the system identifier and it tells the browser, user agent or processor where to find the DTD. For kicks, direct your browser there directly.

3) There is a strict DTD and I highly reccommed it. Pages done in HTML 4.01 Strict will work on [i]all[/i] browsers. It's a very bad idea, though, to use the Strict DTD if you're HTML conforms to some other type. Be certain to run your page through the validator.[/font]
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@JickauthorJul 21.2003 — Could someone go [URL=http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fkd7pyo.infinitypages.com%2F]here[/URL] and tell me what the ALT errors mean and how to fix them? You can also let me know how to fix any other errors. Thank you. ?
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@Da_WarriahJul 21.2003 — Charles, it was my understanding that the strict DTD wouldnt allow iframes...or was that for XHTML strict?

and mjdimick, img tags need an alt="" attribute added, its the tooltip that pops up when the mouse is over the image...

<img src="image.jpg" alt="This is my image!" />
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@JickauthorJul 21.2003 — Ok, thank you Da Warriah. That fixed it. Now could you or someone go back to that link again and tell me how to fix the last 6 errors. I don't understand how to. Thanks. ?
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@pyroJul 21.2003 — First of all, this <img src="image.jpg" alt="This is my image!" /> is not going to mean much to a non-visual browser, so you might as well use alt="", I'd say...

mjdimick - Use css... Those attributes have been depreciated in favor of css.
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@JickauthorJul 21.2003 — Thanks. I got it all fixed and now my page is valid html 4.01 but can you or someone go to [URL=http://kd7pyo.infinitypages.com/]my page[/URL] and view the source and tell me if you see any errors or things that I should do differently? My main goal right now is to make it accessable to all browsers. Thanks. ?
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@CharlesJul 21.2003 — [font=georgia] 1) While there is no IFRAME element in the strict DTDs, you can still make inline frames using the OBJECT element.

2) The "alt" text establishes the alternative text that will be displayed when the image cannot be. It's an accessibility feature for the blind, mainly, but it also keeps your page accessible to search engines and text-only browsers. It's value should reflect any textual information that the image conveys. If the image is just fluff then you should use [font=monospace]alt=""[/font]. I find, however, that the OBJECT element gives one much better control over the alternative text. [/font]
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@CharlesJul 21.2003 — [i]Originally posted by mjdimick [/i]

[B]Thanks. I got it all fixed and now my page is valid html 4.01 but can you or someone go to [URL=http://kd7pyo.infinitypages.com/]my page[/URL] and view the source and tell me if you see any errors or things that I should do differently? My main goal right now is to make it accessable to all browsers. Thanks. ? [/B][/QUOTE][font=georgia]If you want to make your page accessible to all browsers than you have to use HTML 4.01 Strict (http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/) and you have to follow the WCAG 1.0 (http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/). From just a quick glance I notice two fatal errors. You are using TABLEs for layout and you have the following piece of mark up:

[font=monospace]<iframe name="content" src="home.php" frameborder="0" style="width: 100%; height: 100%">Your browser does not support inline frames or is currently configured not to display inline frames.</iframe>[/font]

Instead of insulting your iframe free users try something like:

[font=monospace]<iframe name="content" src="home.php" frameborder="0" style="width: 100%; height: 100%"><a href="home.php">home.php</a></iframe>[/font][/font]
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@JickauthorJul 21.2003 — You were saying before that there was a way to have Iframes yet still be able to use the strict.dtd with "object" or something! How do I do this? Can you show me what doctype I would need and what I would need to use to make my Iframe work correctly? Thanks... ?
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@CharlesJul 21.2003 — [font=monospace]<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"

"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">

<title>Example</title>

<object data="http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#edef-OBJECT" type="text/html"><a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#edef-OBJECT">Generic inclusion: the OBJECT element</a></object>

[font=georgia]It does not, however, work in that piece of dung MSIE. And MSIE is such a piece of dung that it doesn't simply ignore the OBJECT element, it get's it wrong. Your best bet is to get everything working and valid using the strict DTD and then make the following little changes: [/font]


<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"

"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">

<title>Example</title>

<iframe src="http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#edef-OBJECT"><object data="http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#edef-OBJECT" type="text/html"><a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/objects.html#edef-OBJECT">Generic inclusion: the OBJECT element</a></object></iframe>[/font]
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