How many Kilobytes or Megabytes does one of your web pages have?

@RiannaApr 04.2006

Hello all. I am forced to do some weird kind of math.

I need to know how many Kilobytes or Megabytes some websites have, because I need a certain software program that only supports so many Megabytes of a website.

Before I buy the software I need to know if it will support enough web pages for me.

So I can easily tell that a little over a one page word document is around 25 Kilobytes.

I need you guys to please tell me how many kilobytes or megabytes are in an average sized, average type, of web page.

Please let me know and thanks a lot! Rianna

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41 Comments(s) _↴

@KeveyApr 04.2006 — #My pages run about 70-100k.

You can check yourself also. If you're using IE, right click in the page of your choice and choose 'properties' to see the size of the page...you also have to view the properties of any images on the page and add them together. In Firefox you can right click and select 'view page info' and click through the tabs to add up page size.

@RiannaauthorApr 04.2006 — #Thanks a lot Kevey, great tip, I'll try it! Rianna

@rhsundergroundApr 05.2006 — #one thing to consider is what kind of page you want. for example, the google homepage is about 1kb, add images for a total of 10k. the webdeveloper.com homepage is 72kb. throw in the scripts and images for a grand total of 271kb. i recommend looking at sites similar to what you want and see how big they are.

@RiannaauthorApr 05.2006 — #Right, which leads to another important question. Does anyone know if certain web page programming takes up more Kilobytes than others? ...because I am also checking on how I want to design my web pages.

Rianna

@rhsundergroundApr 05.2006 — #javascript creates large files, which are either implemented into pages or saved as seperate files and called from within a page.

server-side scripting, such as PHP as ASP, creates larger files to save but creates smaller pages in result. for example, the php needed to create a blog is MUCH greater than the HTML it outputs.

@RiannaauthorApr 05.2006 — #Thank you supermoderator for the imput.

I tried your great idea about using properties in internet explorer but it only is showing me the main website pages in bytes. Bytes seems way too small for some of these homepage web pages because they have a lot on them. So I don't think this works. Let me know if I am doing something wrong.

Otherwise members keep letting me know please how big your main pages in Kilobytes or MB are of your web pages and thank you very much. Rianna

@RiannaauthorApr 05.2006 — #That helps a lot. I do want a code that doesn't take up a lot of KB's and MB's so it looks like javascript is ruled out.

What do you recommend then rhsunderground, PHP or ASP?

What do you others recommend? Thanks. R.

@NogDogApr 05.2006 — #Are you worried about how much space you need on the web host, or how many bytes have to be sent to the browser for each page?

If the former, you can use server-side scripting/includes to put things that appear on multiple pages into one include file, and external CSS style sheets let you do the same for CSS data that is common to multiple pages.

If the latter, optimize your graphics, use CSS styling instead of complex HTML table layouts, and avoid gimmicky JavaScript "enhancements" that do not really add anything to the user experience.

@RiannaauthorApr 05.2006 — #Man, I would love to take credit for thinking of the host and the browser but I am only thinking about myself. ? I don't want to use up the storage that I have with the host too fast).

With Css styling can you include many kinds of fonts and gifs onto their pages?

Is there any problem with search engines searching website text developed with CSS?

Thanks R.

@NogDogApr 05.2006 — #CSS only controls how the pages are displayed, not the content. And since search engines are only looking at the content, they are not affected.

CSS will let you control fonts, colors, background images, width/height of elements, position of elements, etc. See http://www.htmldog.com/guides/cssbeginner/ for a fairly friendly introduction to CSS.

@RiannaauthorApr 05.2006 — #Thank you I will check it out. You said that the Css pages support background images. I think maybe you just worded it that way. It probably supports gif images doesn't it? Let me know please. R.

@RiannaauthorApr 05.2006 — #Forgot, why do you recommend Css over Php or html? All these create text but most search engines only read html text. Does Css create html text?

Thanks! R.

@pcthugApr 05.2006 — #No. CSS only styles [I]HTML text[/I]. PHP is executed by the server and returns pure [I]HTML text[/I].

@RiannaauthorApr 05.2006 — #Thanks, I just spent a few hours reading up on Css and it didn't explain about the text it creates as being html. So it sounds like there is a difference of opinion. pcthug are you saying I need PHP along with Css to create the html? Rianna

@pcthugApr 05.2006 — #No, HTML is a standalone Markup language which interacts with only the browser (client-side), and therefore is required to show a page.

PHP however is not essential in making a website. When a php page is called it interacts with the server (server-side) where it is processed and can gather information from databases and the server. Once this has been done it is returned to the user as HTML code.

CSS styles the end result.

@RiannaauthorApr 05.2006 — #OK then with all your details about PHP it sounds like that is what I need to get the server to send html to the website. That doesn't sound right, I should be able to create html right onto the web pages without all the hoops. I'm back to square one. What are the easiest ways please to get html and other data onto a web page, using html code to create it? ...or CSS..........what are the options. Html is the most important component I need to make sure I have, so my pages can be searched. Search engines search html easier than any other data. Thanks. R.

@NogDogApr 05.2006 — #The [b]content[/b] of the web page is composed of text marked up with HTML. The [b]visual appearance[/b] of that content can be controlled and enhanced via the use of CSS [i]as an additional element added to the page[/i]. You do not use CSS instead of HTML: you always need the HTML, you [i]may[/i] add CSS to it to increase you control over the visual appearance.

Go through the HTML and CSS tutorials at www.htmldog.com and I think it will become clearer to you.

Likewise, PHP (or other server-side technologies) are not required to serve up web pages. Simply uploading your HTML pages to your web site is sufficient. However, these server-side technologies provide methods to enhance your web site with various functionalities which cannot be accomplished via HTML alone, such as form processing, database interactions, server-side includes of common page elements, etc. None of this is required to simply display static web pages.

@David_HarrisonApr 05.2006 — #Dude, no matter what host you go for, it seems extremely unlikely that you're going to run out of space. If you don't yet know how to create web-sites then you might as well just use a free host.

There are loads of free web-hosts out there, and they'll give you a lot less space than a paid host would, and most of them will put adverts on your page and very few of them support any kind of server-side language. However, they're excellent for messing around on if you're just learning and want to have a web presence.

@Stephen_PhilbinApr 05.2006 — #Also, if you're only playing around with HTML and CSS to start learning, then you don't need a host anyway. You only need a host if you want to put your finished pages on the internet. If you just want to test out what you've made with HTML and CSS to see if what you have made works, then you can just view it from your computer directly. Just open the html file on your computer with the browsers of your choice to view them.

Once you think you have learned enough and you like what you have made, then you can put it on the internet by getting hosting when you are ready.

@RiannaauthorApr 05.2006 — #Right, thank you. It sounds like CSS does not create html well onto web pages. This is what I really need to know. What code or scripting is good in "creating" hmtl onto web pages in different font styles and colors? Thanks! R.

@felgallApr 05.2006 — #Ideally a web page should be under 40k in total size (including all associated files images etc). If a page is bigger than 80k then over 50% of your visitors will leave before the page finishes loading. I have web hosting that gives me 100Mb of space and the 1250 pages I have loaded so far take up about 15Mb of the available space (lots of the code is common between pages and therefore only one copy is needed on the site eg one file to hold all of the common CSS and server side includes or PHP includes to hold the common parts of the HTML for the page - navigation etc.)

@AltF4Apr 06.2006 — #300kbs around there

@David_HarrisonApr 06.2006 — #Right, thank you. It sounds like CSS does not create html well onto web pages. This is what I really need to know. What code or scripting is good in "creating" hmtl onto web pages in different font styles and colors? Thanks! R.[/QUOTE]CSS doesn't create HTML at all, that's not how it works.

There are basically 3 languages that you should be interested in that can be sent to the browser (in reality there's more than 3, but let's keep this simple). They are:[list]

[*]HTML

[*]CSS

[*]JavaScript

[/list]

Since you are just starting out I would recommend that you leave JavaScript alone for now. It's a powerful tool, but it can easily be used in the wrong way, such that your pages rely on JavaScript. Unfortunately not all users have JavaScript enabled, some because they choose to disable it, some because their browser doesn't support it (such as screen readers, braille displays and also search engines).

So this leaves HTML and CSS. HTML is what you should use to markup the page, after all, HTML stands for HyperText Markup Language. CSS is what you should use to style the HTML, by which I mean that you can change the colour of the text, add borders, define widths for elements and a whole load of other things too.

However, since you don't actually know HTML yet, I would advise that you also leave CSS alone for now and concentrate entirely on HTML. Once you know HTML it's a lot easier to learn CSS. That is not to say that they are difficult things to learn, because they're actually pretty simple languages, it's just that it's better to learn one thing at a time, rather than two things simultaneously.

Now a quick note. You don't actually need CSS at all to decorate a page. HTML 4.01 Transitional includes ways to alter the look of the page, enough so that CSS can be all but ignored. Things like the <font> element, which can alter the look, color, and type-face of text. And the table element (which is supposed to be used ONLY for laying out tabular data), can be used to form the layout of the page.

DON'T fall into that trap. Use HTML 4.01 Strict right from the beginning and don't use any presentational markup (such as the font element) and don't use tables for layout. If you learn HTML first, don't try and get your pages to look nice using only HTML, because that's not what HTML is for, that's what CSS is for. Therefore don't use an HTML element because of how it looks on the screen. For example, don't use the h1 element because it makes the text nice and big, or the blockquote element just because it makes a cool indent. Almost everything about an element can be altered with CSS, so if you wanted it would be possible to make almost every element act exactly like the h1 element.

HTML is for basic page structure, CSS is for the page layout and looks. It's that simple. Hopefully that's cleared some things up for you about client-side languages.

The downside with these languages is that they are all sent to the browser to be parsed and then turned into what the user sees on the screen. Why is that a downside? Well, unfortunately not all browsers are the same, and they don't all treat CSS the same, which means that when you do get around to making pages based on CSS, you'll need to test in a few browsers to make sure that they all display the page the same (or at least close enough). You should at least test in IE, Mozilla Firefox and Opera. You'll quickly learn that IE is the worst browser ever invented, so here's some advice, get it to look how you want in Firefox and Opera, then apply whatever fixes are needed for IE.

If you want to learn these languages, there are a number of different web-sites for this, some good, 99.9% bad. You can spot the bad ones when they recommend using the font element or the table element (for layout purposes), or when they make any reference to making the page look how you want with HTML alone.

Therefore if you don't mind spending some money, I'd recommend getting this book:

Elizabeth Castro's HTML for the World Wide Web 5th Edition with XHTML and CSS

And finally, there are lots of programs available that will simply create the HTML (and CSS and JavaScript) for you, such as Microsoft FrontPage Express and Macromedia Dreamweaver. Stay away from these like the plague, they generate lots of unnecessary code which makes your pages bulky. They also tend to generate bad code that isn't cross-browser.

@RiannaauthorApr 06.2006 — #Thanks, when using notepad, what version of html should I be using that most big browsers are using. I tried doing a bit of html code on notepad but the browser only read the code. I think I was using the wrong version. R.

@pcthugApr 06.2006 — #Using the [I]wrong[/I] version wouldn't cause markup to be displayed on the screen, you most likley didn't save the file with a .html extension and therefore the file was read as a text file. When saving in notepad be sure to change the [B]Save as type:[/B] dropdown to [B]All Files[/B], then save your file as say [B]example.html[/B]

@RiannaauthorApr 06.2006 — #Notepad on my computer only saves as text and all files. Then it has a drop down for ANSI, UNICODE, UNICODE big endian, and UTF-8.

If I save it under ALL FILES it still only still shows as code when opened through Internet Explorer. Do I need to do something to it after it is saved as All Files? Some sort of html extension?

Thanks, Rianna

@RiannaauthorApr 06.2006 — #BTW the code I put on it is directly from a HTML website that teaches people how to open up notepad html through a browser. If anyone has any small code I can try instead to test it in case there is something wrong with what they are giving me.

@David_HarrisonApr 06.2006 — #File --> Save As --> "example.html"

Just type the .html extension in yourself, even though it's set to save as a .txt, you can over-ride it by specifying any extension you want.

@RiannaauthorApr 06.2006 — #Thank you so much!!! That was the ticket, it worked! Rianna

@LapinbleuApr 08.2006 — #What does CSS do ? Have a look at http://www.csszengarden.com/ The basic content for each page is written in htlm - it's the style sheet that makes all the difference. Change the stylesheet; change the page, or 1000 pages.... This is economy, rather than writing inline styles on every page. And don't use WYSIWYG - most make heavy coding, with lots of superfluous big big big small big small big stuff.

@RiannaauthorApr 08.2006 — #Thanks for the link! Ri

@Tweak4Apr 10.2006 — #Rianna, while I admire your enthusiasm in learning new skills, from reading this and other threads, I really think you are trying to move entirely too far too fast. As a result, it seems like you're learned a whole bunch of letters without really knowing what any of them stand for, or what any of the words really mean.

I really encourage you to take a step back, and start small. Focus on learning HTML first. Don't worry about Javascript, CSS, PHP or any of that. Just HTML. Learn what the tags are, what they do, etc. Only after that, start investigating CSS and/or Javascript. Both of these really serve to augment the HTML you've already written, so if you don't have a good grip on the basics, you'll never be able to master the extended skills.

Start slowly. Don't jump right in and expect to be able to code a complete, fully interactive web site on your first attempt, and don't try to learn the entire realm of "internet development" at the same time. It's a big world, so you've got to digest it in small pieces.

@felgallApr 10.2006 — #Learn how to write HTML that identifies what the parts of your web page are. Don't worry about how they get laid out on the page because how they look and where they are positioned will be added either by your CSS or that supplied by your visitors.

@RiannaauthorApr 10.2006 — #Monkey, that sounds more like your getting tired of reading my posts, then it is passing helpful advice. If you don't like my posts, then just don't read them. There is a big master plan to my website and I will need it to do all the major things. It needs to be up and running in just a few months. There was no way for me to know which direction to go with the design of my website until I had some important questions answered, than I was able find on my own. After reading several pages of manuals or internet pages and getting nowhere, then why not get help?

If I were going to guess without learning what I did in here and elsewhere, I would have bought a too expensive template and I know now that would have been a big mistake, at least for me. Some of these fellas are incredibly awesome and they don't mind answering what is the best kind of website to get, questions. Most of my questions are even very easy to someone who knows what they are doing ...and guess what with just a few days of questions, I know what kind of website I need.

There isn't anything wrong with asking what certain scripts do either, I look all of them all up on google first and if it doesn't answer my questions than I can ask this forum and other forums. Usually the definition of many of these computer codes and scripts doesn't explain the basics of exactly what it does. It just tells you how to write it.

Maybe you didn't have advantage of forums when you started out, but I had nothing to do with it. Thanks to this forum, I am now using kits and editors, all very basic which has plugins that I can use for other script, if I need it. With all I have learned in this forum, I am already able to answer others questions here, and with confidence. All my research so far has paid off.

I shouldn't have to explain all of this to you, just because you assume I am an idiot by trying to learn how something works. Although as I learn more the questions will be harder if I can't find the answers elsewhere. I think some here who know all the ins and outs of all this can still help, but only if they want to. Ri.

@LapinbleuApr 11.2006 — #Rianna ! What a snotty mail ! You ask for advice without really filling us in on what you want to do. Your original post on this thread "How many Kilobytes or Megabytes does one of your web pages have?" is a bit like asking "How long is a piece of string?". 'Save as' a few pages to disk, then you'll have a better idea. I imagine you know how to ride a bicycle? Now try to explain it to someone else - but in words only, no holding on behind the saddle... A quick cruise around the web shows us just how many people make sites which, although they may appear smart, with bells, whistles and annoying animated gifs, are desperately slow to load, and may well not even be available to those who don't have an all-singing-all-dancing computer and fast connection. Here in the UK, which is hardly an uncivilised jungle, about 40% of the population do not yet have access to broadband, and many of these may never see it. Do your pages work properly on other browsers? Some browsers are very tolerant to errors in HTML coding, whilst others are not. Some people do not have your young eyes - can they re-size your text without completely messing up the page, if at all. Do you validate your code with W3C? It's free and has taught me a great deal - many pages that "work" are still stuffed with coding errors. And above all, act with a bit more humility - everyone who offers advice here does so for free, through a feeling that once one has learnt something it is then a duty to pass it on. How can you run with the big dogs when you still piss like a puppy?

"A problem, properly stated, is a problem on its way to being solved" -Buckminster Fuller

@RiannaauthorApr 11.2006 — #I don't need this attack. Just sticking up for myself and there is nothing wrong with that.

@Tweak4Apr 11.2006 — #Assuming your previous response was directed at me, my post was in no way an attack, merely advice. The advice applies to all skills, not just web sites- if you haven't mastered the basics, then you have no foundation on which to build advanced skills. Furthermore, I never assumed that you were an idiot. The only assumption I made was that you were new to the world of internet development, and quite possibly programming in general. Equating the two would effectively be saying that anyone who doesn't know how to build a web site is an idiot, which is just silly.

Instead, I'm merely trying to convince you that if you don't really know the ins and outs of html, you'll have a hard time really learning how to properly use CSS to style those tags, or scripting languages to make them interactive.

I'm not trying to get you to stop asking questions in the forum- that's why it's here. I'm merely suggesting that you focus on learning smaller chunks at a time, rather than attempting to learn every technology at once.

It's pretty clear that you don't have much experience creating web content, and I'm not attempting to deter you from trying to get more. This forum is a great place to go for questions, but you need to get to a certain point skill-wise before you know what questions you need to ask. I'm just trying to give you a little advice from someone who has already been there, that it might ease your trip a bit.

As much effort as you're putting into this, I would hate to see you crash and burn, but without a good grip on the basic techniques and a clear idea of what the various common technologies are for, I fear you'll just end up confused and frustrated.

That's why whenever I have to train someone in my company in web development basics, we start off with plain html in Notepad. Once they've conquered that, they can use any tools they want, but only after they have a solid foundation upon which to build.

@RiannaauthorApr 13.2006 — #You misunderstood something in my questions, I never said I wanted to master writing all these codes. I said I needed to be able to ADD all the code to my pages. I had two websites before and I could not add certain functions to my websites that I needed because my websites would not accept the code or script.

@mark200Apr 13.2006 — #You misunderstood something in my questions, I never said I wanted to master writing all these codes. I said I needed to be able to ADD all the code to my pages. I had two websites before and I could not add certain functions to my websites that I needed because my websites would not accept the code or script.[/QUOTE]
Rianna,

just try to take his original post as advice and not an attack. There is no point trying to learn how to enhance something when you aren't sure of everything it can do/how to make it do everything it can do, without the enchancement. I agree with his original post, just learn something properly before moving onto the next.

I am in now way knocking your ability to learn it, i'mm sure you already know a bit more than me, as I am also trying to learn the ins and outs of HTML. I'm just giving you advice from a 3rd person view, and from experience of trying to learn everything at once, it's not the best way to go, and in a month or two when you're trying to put together you're site that you tried to learn everything for, well you'll realise that you havent learned much more than you already knew, because you're trying to cram in too much information at once.

Mark

@Butch1Apr 13.2006 — #error

@RiannaauthorApr 14.2006 — #Thanks you guys but, "I never said I wanted to write all these hard scripts and codes" from the get go. I just needed to add them to my pages. There is nothing wrong in trying to build pages to accept them. In order to do that I need to ask questions. Ri.